GWX (Grey Wolves eXpansion Mod) - Page 278

Lanzfeld · 01-11-09, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanzfeld

I scanned the change logs as best I can but I thought I would ask to be sure:

Was there any change to the subs .zon files between 2.1 and 3.0 ?

Anyone?

Fluffysheap · 01-13-09, 07:26 PM

I have just downloaded GWX 3.0, and I am fairly new to SH3 as well, having only recently obtained the Steam version which does not suffer from Starforce. Anyway, I was able to install it fine and it appears to work but I had a few questions/concerns/whatever. Pardon me having so many questions, thanks in advance for any help.

* It seems that if starting a campaign in 1939, you will start on August 1 which is a whole month before the start of the war. This means you will have nothing to do on your first patrol as all nations are neutral, even Germany. So you can just sail around for a few days if you like then return to port, or "return to port" immediately, for a free qualification. Then two weeks will pass and you can set sail on your real patrol. Why not start the campaign three weeks later, so you will still have time to travel to your patrol area before war breaks out, but without having to go through a whole patrol where nothing happens?

* It seems there is no longer any reason at all to go to your designated patrol area. You don't gain anything for going there nor suffer a penalty if you don't. I understand this is done to support the non-European campaigns and also because less renown is needed in GWX. But would it be possible instead to lose renown if you don't go to your patrol area? Or would this not work?

* The GWX manual says you no longer have to play the tutorial missions to get 1500 starting renown. I deleted all my save game data before installing the GWX mod, and did not play the tutorial missions again. But I started with only 500 renown.

* I agree that the crew fatigue model in stock SH3 required crew to be rotated too often. But it seems GWX goes too far in the other direction. My crew can remain on duty for several days at a time before getting tired, then it takes them several days to get rested. This seems to be no more realistic than before although it is less work. Why not have them get tired after 8 or 12 hours, which would be better I think?

* What is the resolution to the situation with manual identification, rangefinding errors and duplicate ships? I read about this in the thread a few pages back. I use manual targeting and identification exclusively. If I always use the first version of each duplicate ship and just point the stadimeter at the top of the mast will everything "just work" or do I need to do something special? Or is manual rangefinding not reliable?

TarJak · 01-13-09, 09:15 PM

Welcome aboard Fluffysheap!

First off you will find most of the answers on these boards by doing a search.

That said:

Q1: You can only start a career on the 1st of a particular month even when using SH3Commander. The point is that it allows you to start a 1939 career before the war starts so on your second patrol you have the chance to get into position for when the war kicks off.

Q2:That would not work and the reason for the removal of patrol grid renown is discussed in the manual.

Q3: You have to do at least one tutorial mission to get the full 1500 renown. Doesn't matter which one but the navigation is the easiest.

Q4: It is what it is. I use the No fatigue option from SH3Commander because I don't see that as the captain I should have to go and roust out the slackers and sluggabeds who don't want to do their bit for the war effort.

Q5: I defer to a manual targetting experts but from my experience the range matters the least in getting the solution right. Most important is the AoB and speed of the target. I'm not entirely sure what you are asking in terms of reliability? The manual range finding will only ever give an approximate range. The WO Assist will give accuracy but it is less of a concern unless you are doing very long range shots. In real life the main reason for including the range in the calculation was to allow them to time the run so they could have an idea about when the torp should hit the target.

A Very Super Market · 01-13-09, 09:26 PM

Also, there is a glitch where the first patrol tonnage is not recorded by the game.

Skipping 2,3 on to 4!

As far as I know, the only reason it takes longer is because the crew fatigue stops doing anything after you get to 32X times compression (Or whatever you set 3d effects to). At lower levels, it will take 4-12 hours for rotations. And you can always go for No fatigue.

And range doesn't matter in TDC, but if you are using the In-periscope AoB and Speed finders, it can screw you up quite a bit. Duplicate ships are there because the neutral nations' ships are usually lit-up, and hostile ones are dimmed. I think the first ship is for is dimmed out ones.

B.N.R.T. · 01-13-09, 10:17 PM

Just a quick post to say that I really really really really really (you get the point, don't you?) like the new GWX. A very big THANK YOU for all the people who put time and effort into this.

Now, I know I should probably RTFM for this one, but in GWX 2.0 I had some programs/mods with which I could make my own shortcuts and alter the TC settings. Will these also work with GWX 3.0?

Lanzfeld · 01-13-09, 10:18 PM

Not exactly true.

I did alot of testing with range. The results below, and you can replicate these yourself:

Range is only a factor if you are shooting with a high gyro angle. If you are shooting at a low gyro angle, say 0 to 30 degrees off your nose or tail then range will have VERY little impact on the final torpedo gyro lead angle.

BUT:

If you shoot at higher gyro angles, say 30 to 90 degrees then range will have a greater impact on the final torpedo gyro lead angle. The higher the angle, the more range matters.

Play with the manual TDC and UZO yourself without and targets. You will see this is true.

Almost all my shots are <30 degrees so range doesnt matter too much for me.

Weiss Pinguin · 01-13-09, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.N.R.T.

Now, I know I should probably RTFM for this one, but in GWX 2.0 I had some programs/mods with which I could make my own shortcuts and alter the TC settings. Will these also work with GWX 3.0?

I believe they should.

For the question on crew fatigue, yep, running at a high TC (128 or above I think) slows down fatigue almost to the point that it doesn't happen. The flipside is that your crew recovers at the same rate that it fatigues.

Awful Smutje · 01-14-09, 08:23 AM

The manual says 64x.

Its all in the "Dealing with fatigue" Part at the end.
(Appendix D-5, it's page 621 in the manual)

thehiredgun · 01-14-09, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffysheap

I have just downloaded GWX 3.0, and I am fairly new to SH3 as well, having only recently obtained the Steam version which does not suffer from Starforce. Anyway, I was able to install it fine and it appears to work but I had a few questions/concerns/whatever. Pardon me having so many questions, thanks in advance for any help.

* It seems that if starting a campaign in 1939, you will start on August 1 which is a whole month before the start of the war. This means you will have nothing to do on your first patrol as all nations are neutral, even Germany. So you can just sail around for a few days if you like then return to port, or "return to port" immediately, for a free qualification. Then two weeks will pass and you can set sail on your real patrol. Why not start the campaign three weeks later, so you will still have time to travel to your patrol area before war breaks out, but without having to go through a whole patrol where nothing happens?

* It seems there is no longer any reason at all to go to your designated patrol area. You don't gain anything for going there nor suffer a penalty if you don't. I understand this is done to support the non-European campaigns and also because less renown is needed in GWX. But would it be possible instead to lose renown if you don't go to your patrol area? Or would this not work?

* The GWX manual says you no longer have to play the tutorial missions to get 1500 starting renown. I deleted all my save game data before installing the GWX mod, and did not play the tutorial missions again. But I started with only 500 renown.

* I agree that the crew fatigue model in stock SH3 required crew to be rotated too often. But it seems GWX goes too far in the other direction. My crew can remain on duty for several days at a time before getting tired, then it takes them several days to get rested. This seems to be no more realistic than before although it is less work. Why not have them get tired after 8 or 12 hours, which would be better I think?

* What is the resolution to the situation with manual identification, rangefinding errors and duplicate ships? I read about this in the thread a few pages back. I use manual targeting and identification exclusively. If I always use the first version of each duplicate ship and just point the stadimeter at the top of the mast will everything "just work" or do I need to do something special? Or is manual rangefinding not reliable?

One thing i like about starting the 1st patrol in early August is that You can go into enemy ports see what is there , as after the war does in fact start you very likely will want to stay out of them as most of them are shallow . Sometimes you can get a idea of something to go after, waiting outside of the port ! Welcome ! As you have already found out, there a lot of good people here that will be very helpful ! Good luck!! To each his own but i like & use SH3 Commander & SH3 Generator ! The Allies & the Axis had intelligence & SH3 Generator will generate you a set of orders that gives you a idea of whats in the enemy ports after the war starts!

Fluffysheap · 01-14-09, 04:43 PM

Thanks for the suggestions. I restarted my career, did the navigation tutorial and got the whole 1500 renown. So that is good.

I changed the time compression settings to cause crew to fatigue even up to 1024x compression. I was happy as I could run 6-hour shifts and the crew was just starting to get tired, I can live with 6-hour shift changes even on a patrol, at least for now, we'll see if I get sick of it later on. That was until the weather got a bit choppy, then I had to rotate crew every two hours again. Now I see why the game eliminates fatigue when compression is high, otherwise you could not get anywhere, but would still have fatigue in combat (probably you only are expected to be below 64x when in combat, so it all works out even if you never have to actually change shifts while traveling).

For the torpedo aiming perhaps once I actually have a chance to fire a torpedo I will see how it goes, but between fiddling with the fatigue, restarting my careers, waiting for the war to start and CTDs I haven't had a chance to actually do any fighting in GWX yet, perhaps this evening

Weiss Pinguin · 01-14-09, 05:16 PM

During combat TC usually caps out at 32x, so fatigue would be present. Although occasionally, when enemy craft don't quite have me pinpointed, I can run around at 64/128x, but that's just suicide when evading depth charges. :hmm:

otto69 · 01-17-09, 03:25 PM

The new version is great. However, I have a ?. There are to many "recieved messages" while on patrol. Is there a fix to reduce them to be relevent to my boat?

otto

LordNeuro"Serbia" · 01-17-09, 04:27 PM

Das enybody have thise bug. I m on my 2 patrol just driving and site seing when in Istanbul port i see thise

And couple more ships in the same port was in thise way. I must been messing somthing up.

TarJak · 01-17-09, 06:47 PM

Looks like they were either spawned too close to one another and merged. BBW might want to take a look at it or not.

Jimbuna · 01-17-09, 07:05 PM

The weather looks rough....they may have drifted alittle as a result

01-13-09, 07:26 PM	#4157
Fluffysheap Bosun Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 63 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	New to GWX I have just downloaded GWX 3.0, and I am fairly new to SH3 as well, having only recently obtained the Steam version which does not suffer from Starforce. Anyway, I was able to install it fine and it appears to work but I had a few questions/concerns/whatever. Pardon me having so many questions, thanks in advance for any help. * It seems that if starting a campaign in 1939, you will start on August 1 which is a whole month before the start of the war. This means you will have nothing to do on your first patrol as all nations are neutral, even Germany. So you can just sail around for a few days if you like then return to port, or "return to port" immediately, for a free qualification. Then two weeks will pass and you can set sail on your real patrol. Why not start the campaign three weeks later, so you will still have time to travel to your patrol area before war breaks out, but without having to go through a whole patrol where nothing happens? * It seems there is no longer any reason at all to go to your designated patrol area. You don't gain anything for going there nor suffer a penalty if you don't. I understand this is done to support the non-European campaigns and also because less renown is needed in GWX. But would it be possible instead to lose renown if you don't go to your patrol area? Or would this not work? * The GWX manual says you no longer have to play the tutorial missions to get 1500 starting renown. I deleted all my save game data before installing the GWX mod, and did not play the tutorial missions again. But I started with only 500 renown. * I agree that the crew fatigue model in stock SH3 required crew to be rotated too often. But it seems GWX goes too far in the other direction. My crew can remain on duty for several days at a time before getting tired, then it takes them several days to get rested. This seems to be no more realistic than before although it is less work. Why not have them get tired after 8 or 12 hours, which would be better I think? * What is the resolution to the situation with manual identification, rangefinding errors and duplicate ships? I read about this in the thread a few pages back. I use manual targeting and identification exclusively. If I always use the first version of each duplicate ship and just point the stadimeter at the top of the mast will everything "just work" or do I need to do something special? Or is manual rangefinding not reliable? Last edited by Fluffysheap; 01-13-09 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Bad formatting

01-13-09, 09:15 PM	#4158
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Welcome aboard Fluffysheap! First off you will find most of the answers on these boards by doing a search. That said: Q1: You can only start a career on the 1st of a particular month even when using SH3Commander. The point is that it allows you to start a 1939 career before the war starts so on your second patrol you have the chance to get into position for when the war kicks off. Q2:That would not work and the reason for the removal of patrol grid renown is discussed in the manual. Q3: You have to do at least one tutorial mission to get the full 1500 renown. Doesn't matter which one but the navigation is the easiest. Q4: It is what it is. I use the No fatigue option from SH3Commander because I don't see that as the captain I should have to go and roust out the slackers and sluggabeds who don't want to do their bit for the war effort. Q5: I defer to a manual targetting experts but from my experience the range matters the least in getting the solution right. Most important is the AoB and speed of the target. I'm not entirely sure what you are asking in terms of reliability? The manual range finding will only ever give an approximate range. The WO Assist will give accuracy but it is less of a concern unless you are doing very long range shots. In real life the main reason for including the range in the calculation was to allow them to time the run so they could have an idea about when the torp should hit the target. Last edited by TarJak; 01-14-09 at 04:47 PM.

01-13-09, 09:26 PM	#4159
A Very Super Market The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Deep in the Wild Canadian suburbs. Posts: 1,468 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Also, there is a glitch where the first patrol tonnage is not recorded by the game. Skipping 2,3 on to 4! As far as I know, the only reason it takes longer is because the crew fatigue stops doing anything after you get to 32X times compression (Or whatever you set 3d effects to). At lower levels, it will take 4-12 hours for rotations. And you can always go for No fatigue. And range doesn't matter in TDC, but if you are using the In-periscope AoB and Speed finders, it can screw you up quite a bit. Duplicate ships are there because the neutral nations' ships are usually lit-up, and hostile ones are dimmed. I think the first ship is for is dimmed out ones. __________________ The entire German garrison of Vanviken, right here in your thread!

01-14-09, 08:23 AM	#4163
Awful Smutje Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Germany, about 200km upwards the Weser from bunker "Valentin" Posts: 125 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The manual says 64x. Its all in the "Dealing with fatigue" Part at the end. (Appendix D-5, it's page 621 in the manual) __________________ Fette Beute und immer eine Handbreit Wasser unter dem Kiel!

01-14-09, 04:43 PM	#4165
Fluffysheap Bosun Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 63 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the suggestions. I restarted my career, did the navigation tutorial and got the whole 1500 renown. So that is good. I changed the time compression settings to cause crew to fatigue even up to 1024x compression. I was happy as I could run 6-hour shifts and the crew was just starting to get tired, I can live with 6-hour shift changes even on a patrol, at least for now, we'll see if I get sick of it later on. That was until the weather got a bit choppy, then I had to rotate crew every two hours again. Now I see why the game eliminates fatigue when compression is high, otherwise you could not get anywhere, but would still have fatigue in combat (probably you only are expected to be below 64x when in combat, so it all works out even if you never have to actually change shifts while traveling). For the torpedo aiming perhaps once I actually have a chance to fire a torpedo I will see how it goes, but between fiddling with the fatigue, restarting my careers, waiting for the war to start and CTDs I haven't had a chance to actually do any fighting in GWX yet, perhaps this evening Last edited by Fluffysheap; 01-14-09 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Bad formatting

01-13-09, 10:17 PM	#4160
B.N.R.T. Seaman Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Arnhem, Netherlands Posts: 42 Downloads: 71 Uploads: 0	Just a quick post to say that I really really really really really (you get the point, don't you?) like the new GWX. A very big THANK YOU for all the people who put time and effort into this. Now, I know I should probably RTFM for this one, but in GWX 2.0 I had some programs/mods with which I could make my own shortcuts and alter the TC settings. Will these also work with GWX 3.0?

01-13-09, 10:18 PM	#4161
Lanzfeld Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 994 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	Not exactly true. I did alot of testing with range. The results below, and you can replicate these yourself: Range is only a factor if you are shooting with a high gyro angle. If you are shooting at a low gyro angle, say 0 to 30 degrees off your nose or tail then range will have VERY little impact on the final torpedo gyro lead angle. BUT: If you shoot at higher gyro angles, say 30 to 90 degrees then range will have a greater impact on the final torpedo gyro lead angle. The higher the angle, the more range matters. Play with the manual TDC and UZO yourself without and targets. You will see this is true. Almost all my shots are <30 degrees so range doesnt matter too much for me.

01-14-09, 05:16 PM	#4166
Weiss Pinguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 3,333 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	During combat TC usually caps out at 32x, so fatigue would be present. Although occasionally, when enemy craft don't quite have me pinpointed, I can run around at 64/128x, but that's just suicide when evading depth charges. :hmm: __________________

01-17-09, 03:25 PM	#4167
otto69 A-ganger Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 76 Downloads: 265 Uploads: 0	GWX 3.0 The new version is great. However, I have a ?. There are to many "recieved messages" while on patrol. Is there a fix to reduce them to be relevent to my boat? otto

01-17-09, 04:27 PM	#4168
LordNeuro"Serbia" Chief Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 328 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	A bug maybe Das enybody have thise bug. I m on my 2 patrol just driving and site seing when in Istanbul port i see thise And couple more ships in the same port was in thise way. I must been messing somthing up. __________________

01-17-09, 06:47 PM	#4169
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Looks like they were either spawned too close to one another and merged. BBW might want to take a look at it or not.

01-17-09, 07:05 PM	#4170
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,240 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The weather looks rough....they may have drifted alittle as a result __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)