[REL] Natural Sinking Mechanics

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by tater

Hydrogen

:rotfl:

[tater]

I did (that wasn't my pic by the way). When I sank her she blew up a fair bit, but nothing like that (I hit dinsdale with 2 of 3 fish at 2300 yards). Just with whatever stock TM has for damage.

I've sunk MANY subchasers, never seen one in the air like that.

[Digital_Trucker]

I'm guessing that the person who posted the pic was using a torpedo mod and the reason this only happened after the Natural Sinking Mechanics mod was applied is that NSM makes the sub jolt upwards (like it's supposed to) when struck by an exploding torpedo. Prior to NSM it probably went underwater rapidly then bobbed back up when struck with the sooperdoopertorpedo

[Ducimus]

Well, when said double torpedo damage, maybe i meant 25% - i was in a hurry when i asked the question. Just FYI, i have tried it with stock torpedo's, and didn't notice any difference, so i thought surely there was a reason im not seeing for the upped torepdo damage - hence i asked.

As for Dinsdale... wow. Did someone do a time warp and aquire a Mark 48 torpedo ?

[leovampire]

what is going on?

No matter where I go or how much time passes this smoke is fallowing me. As soon as one get's to the end of my visual range it reapears next to my sub on either side of it.



I have not droped a plane or sunk a ship in 14 game day's time.

[kv29]

thanks for you efforts, werner. the mod rocks.
is it just me or the holes on the ships look a little too big now?

[tater]

That's just weird, leo. I've not seen that at all.

tater

[WernerSobe]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Great work Wenersobe!

I really love your mod. I have one question and one observation for you.

Question:
Why is double torpedo damage neccessary? What do you think would happen if i ran your mod with normal torpedo damage?


Observation:
I noticed in the single mission you have set up, that the tanker, after about 20 mins or so, seems to spontaniously combust, all on its own.

1. Double damage is necessery because hitpoints for every zone has been doubled too. So basicly you will not notice the double damage. Ive done it to make the deckgun more challenging. In stock zones have a hitpoint range of 100-150. Meaning you need only a few shells to flood that zone and only about 15-20 shells for a ship when placed below the water line.

My first approach was reducing the gun damage. But that ended up in problems with armor penetration. Because this is based on damage and lower damage that its already is makes it impossible to penetrate even the lowest armor.

So ive increased the hitpoints for every zone. To make the torpedos still do the desired damage, and since the zone hitpoints has been doubled, they must also do double damage.

You should now need 40+ shells for a medium size ship. If you use lower torpedo damage, well not much will happen, you will need more torpedos to make the ship flood. You can do it if you like.


2. Realy? Well if its blows on its own without your action then its a bug ill look into it. It can however be turned on fire by ships exploding nearby. There is an explosion range of exploding ships that can damage other ships too. So maybe you have blown a ship next to it that turned the tanker wich is full of aircraft fuel on fire?

[tater]

Interesting. I did testing with NSM vs ramming by DDs.

My sub still takes no damage (that I SEE, guess I should look at hitpoints), but the DD takes no sudden damage.

I let one ram me 3 times, but I was crippled and had to surface (he did no ramming damage, but he DCed the living crap out of me each pass). So I surface, and start shooting (I'm dead in the water with the "all engines dead even though I show half my engines undamaged" bug). I hit the DD 2 times, and I get an "enemy unit destroyed" message.

Rafts appear in the water, and he steams off at high speed. After a few miles he stops dead, crew at guns. Another DD comes and after a while I am sunk.

I assume the periscope still does massive hitpoint damage to DDs even if they at least don;t explode. Still, better than before.

[WernerSobe]

You could have hit his ammo bunker with the deckgun? Actualy you can try to increase their armor rating in both zones.cfg and shipfile. They should become immune agains ramming at about 60 AP. But then they will also be immune agains 4" shells. Torpedoes can penetrate armor up to 90.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

1. Double damage is necessery because hitpoints for every zone has been doubled too. So basicly you will not notice the double damage. Ive done it to make the deckgun more challenging. In stock zones have a hitpoint range of 100-150. Meaning you need only a few shells to flood that zone and only about 15-20 shells for a ship when placed below the water line.

My first approach was reducing the gun damage. But that ended up in problems with armor penetration. Because this is based on damage and lower damage that its already is makes it impossible to penetrate even the lowest armor.

So ive increased the hitpoints for every zone. To make the torpedos still do the desired damage, and since the zone hitpoints has been doubled, they must also do double damage.

You should now need 40+ shells for a medium size ship. If you use lower torpedo damage, well not much will happen, you will need more torpedos to make the ship flood. You can do it if you like.


2. Realy? Well if its blows on its own without your action then its a bug ill look into it. It can however be turned on fire by ships exploding nearby. There is an explosion range of exploding ships that can damage other ships too. So maybe you have blown a ship next to it that turned the tanker wich is full of aircraft fuel on fire?

Running the Light version, sans torpedo mods, and im still sinking ships with around the torpedo's cited. One idea that immediatly hit me, is removing the "target destroyed" message in the menu.txt file. It would put some guesswork back into it.

I beleive, and i could be wrong, that once a compartment is breeched, it WILL flood to 100%. How fast it will flood is probably dependant on the flood time, and the size/severity of the breech (IE size of hole)

In reference to this post:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=120328

I responded with the following:

"An idea that the NYGM team had, who i beleive ran accross the same problem, was simple.

Shorten the length of the keel zone so its a small area, not running the whole length of the ship. And then move the keel zone to different locations on each ship type to keep the player guessing on where the "sweet spot" is"


As per the Tanker exploding on its own. Unfortuantley i can confirm it is. If you run the single mission that comes with the mod, if you wait about 10-15 minutes (without firing a single shot), the ship will explode, break in two and sink. My guess is its something specific to that tanker model.

[WernerSobe]

Originally Posted by leovampire

what is going on?

No matter where I go or how much time passes this smoke is fallowing me. As soon as one get's to the end of my visual range it reapears next to my sub on either side of it.



I have not droped a plane or sunk a ship in 14 game day's time.

never seen something like that. Could be a compability problem with another mod? Have someone else seen that?

[leovampire]

I removed all files that yours would over write to make sure nothing got mixed up in there to create a problem. So I have no clue what is going on with that smoke bit. As soon as I enable your mod and go to my save game the smoke appears in a second or 2 then fallows me around and when I disable your mod and go to that save the smoke is gone.

So anyone's guess is as good as mine on the problem. When I get back to port I will enable the mod again and see if it stops. I will keep you informed on what I find WernerSobe.

[WernerSobe]

you should never install or remove mods on patrol savegames. That will always cause problems.

[leovampire]

because they cause crashes but I have done changes to the same files you reworked and added and subtracted them at will to do in game tests with no problems in the past this was a first for any strange anomolies. But it still dosn't make sence because it is acting like a ship or plane went down nearby and none did. As a matter of fact I am over 800nm from where I sunk my last ship.

I just make sure I do all testing in campaign mode because effects change from single mission to campaign mode so I base all work I do on campaign tests not single mission because that is where it matters most.

For some reason or another the game only takes what information it needs to make a single mission profile work the way it was set up but in campaign mode the game uses every single peace of info available in the files. The best way to see this is PC resorces used when the game is in single mission mode vs campaign mode. Put the game in a window setting and bring up something that shows PC resorces used to include ram and virtual memory and you will see a huge difference between both modes of game use of resorces.