The all purpose terrorism thread featuring plenty of allah akbar

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

August does bring up a good point. After having read the case United States of America v. Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., Steven Dwight Hammond and the current situation and actions by certain individuals and groups in Oregon. Their action does at the moment look much less than terrorism as defined by U.S. law and more like a 'protest' lead by an eccentric nut.

The thing I would ponder is that if such a thing took place in another nation, say, somewhere in the Middle East, what would we label it? Also, if these people were Muslims, never mind their reasoning behind the protest, would we still be so calm?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Oberon

The thing I would ponder is that if such a thing took place in another nation, say, somewhere in the Middle East, what would we label it? Also, if these people were Muslims, never mind their reasoning behind the protest, would we still be so calm?

I think that if they didn't kill or even hurt anybody, and gave their reasons, it might still only be called a protest.

The bigger danger I see is them possibly being proved right. Places like Ruby Ridge and Waco come to mind. Sometimes authorities do tend to overreact, and act more like terrorists than the ones they give that label.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Well, it gets a little cold in Oregon. Cut the power and water and wait them out. They are gonna get a little hungry after a while.

What we don't need is another Waco.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I think that if they didn't kill or even hurt anybody, and gave their reasons, it might still only be called a protest.

The bigger danger I see is them possibly being proved right. Places like Ruby Ridge and Waco come to mind. Sometimes authorities do tend to overreact, and act more like terrorists than the ones they give that label.

Some probably would still just call it a protest, but you just know that the usual suspects would be very quick to call it terrorism, before details of the incident had even emerged.

But you are correct, the last thing we need here is for people to become martyrs, that would just split the US even more.

[Rockstar]

The Hammonds were brought to court, tried, and found guilty by a jury of their peers of arson. The stink arose when after only being given a slap on the hands for their punishment. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the federal law, reasoning that “given the seriousness of arson, a five-year sentence is not grossly disproportionate to the offense. Overturned the decision and awarded the maximum punishment of five years in prison.

I say good on the Ninth Circuit Court for throwing the book at the Hammonds.

Enter Bundy and his followers storming the castle to protest the decision.

Are we too quick to pronounce judgment on what a terrorist act is? Maybe so, but then ask what unfounded accusations of terrorism have been made?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

The Hammonds were brought to court, tried, and found guilty by a jury of their peers of arson. The stink arose when after only being given a slap on the hands for their punishment. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the federal law, reasoning that “given the seriousness of arson, a five-year sentence is not grossly disproportionate to the offense. Overturned the decision and awarded the maximum punishment of five years in prison.

I say good on the Ninth Circuit Court for throwing the book at the Hammonds.

Enter Bundy and his followers storming the castle to protest the decision.

Are we too quick to pronounce judgment on what a terrorist act is? But I have ask what accusations of terrorism made on here have so far been untrue?

To be fair, Bundy is being smart in not issuing any demands or anything as such, so it can still be classified as a protest, but really it's only a small shuffle away from an attempt to alter the decision of local government through threat of force. I mean Bundys group have broken the law, they are illegally occupying a federal building, but at this point no-one has been harmed. Hopefully it will stay that way but I cannot be certain that it will.

What amuses me is the divide in which such stories are written and reported and how local governments respond, depending on exactly who it is that is undertaking the action. It's a sign of the polarised world that we live in.

[STEED]

Islamic State militants have released a video, featuring a man and young boy speaking with British accents, purportedly showing the killing of five men who it says were spying for the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35218086


Meanwhile at the BBC..

A group that says it targets online activity linked to so-called Islamic State (IS) has claimed it was behind an attack on the BBC's website.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35213415

[Oberon]

Saudi Arabia cuts diplomatic ties with Iran, instructs Iranian diplomats to leave within 48 hours.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35217328

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Saudi Arabia cuts diplomatic ties with Iran, instructs Iranian diplomats to leave within 48 hours.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35217328

Yes, but you should put it in the right order.

Saudi-Arabai beheads 72 persons being accused of "criticizing the state".
It is all about Sunnites, against Shiites.

There is a worldwide uproar, because of this.

The Saudi-arabian embassy in Iran is being stormed, by outraged people, and not only Iranians.

And NOW, Saudi-Arabia cuts diplomatic ties, with Iran.
Which of course was planned all the time.
I am being soo tired of our good friends, the Saudi Arabians.

[Oberon]

Oh, don't worry, Iran is ready to do its own executions shortly. Like you say, it's all Sunni vs Shi'ite, and it's just another step in the Iran/Saudi Arabia cold war. Things will calm down again eventually once they've finished their tit for tat, although I doubt diplomatic relations will be restored for a while, if ever.

EDIT: Actually, I take that back, looking through Iyad El-Baghdadis twitter feed I see that the Iranian army has stated that it's time to act against Saudi Arabia. This could possibly go south, but I don't think either side particularly wants it to, it's easier for them to fight through proxies rather than directly battle...but...

[Catfish]

Right, tit for tat. Like some spoiled children, in school.
Of course that is how politics work lol.

But, who do we feed with weapons, of all kinds, since decades?
And make a lot of money by it, of course. Maybe we see an outright hot war.

I have met a lot of middle-east people during my studies. People from Israeel were the most up-to-date, and open minded. Maybe there were not so much right-wing hawks, studying here.
Then there were Iranians, also very open-minded, and openly criticizing their country's government and eager to go back and change things, some in exile, of course.

Then there were a lot of other nationalities, ended by a state that seems to consist merely of slaves, and princes.
Now guess who was the worst of all those nations, when it comes to intolerance, arrogance, and religious fanatism.

[Oberon]

Eh, politics is one thing but this has got religious divisions in it too. Some people are already comparing to the Thirty years war, and it could get just as messy. Let's face it, for the people of Syria and Yemen, it already is pretty bloody messy.

When it comes to the Saudis though, that's realpolitik in action right there. Once upon a time, don't forget, we were friends with the Iranians, but then they went to the Soviets and so we saddled up to the guys who had the biggest share in the oil market.
I think you perhaps underestimate how much oil has ruled the western world since the early 1900s, and when you consider how much oil the Saudis control and their clout in the control of the oil prices, you can bet your bottom dollar (literally) that any nation who requires large sums of oil will do their best to be their best friends.
Remember South Africa during Apartheid? They were everything the western world were supposedly against, but they were also virulently anti-communist and they controlled vast sums of precious metals and minerals, and so we were buddy-buddy with them, although it varied depending on who was in office, it was rather a schizophrenic relationship but nevertheless it was a relationship.

In this instance though the western world is definitely at a crossroads, because Saudi Arabia and Iran are fighting not just because of religious differences, although it benefits both of them to paint it that way because then you can call in more people from other countries to help you, but they're fighting because both want to be the top dog in the Middle East, and both have the allies and wherewithal to do it. So we in the west have got to decide which dog to bet on, do we side with Iran even though they're technically Russias dog and have spent the past two decades being very openly anti-western, or do we side with the Saudis who are traditionally our dog but who are possibly the underdog in this proxy conflict and who have been quietly anti-western. Both sides hate us, but both sides have oil, and we need oil, we're not out of the oil age yet and the main reason the oil prices have come down so low is because Saudi Arabia wanted them to, because it wanted to undercut any profits that Russia and Iran could make from their oil and deny them that advantage over them.
Let's face it though, Iran and Russia would benefit from a war and the jump in oil prices that would follow, but ultimately I don't know if that benefit would be worth the conflict, especially since the US will almost certainly intervene to assist Saudi Arabia.

Ultimately for our own purposes it would be best if we didn't pick any side and just stayed out, but until the US provides enough shale oil to fuel the entire western world and then some I don't think that we have that luxury.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Oberon

To be fair, Bundy is being smart in not issuing any demands or anything as such, so it can still be classified as a protest, but really it's only a small shuffle away from an attempt to alter the decision of local government through threat of force. I mean Bundys group have broken the law, they are illegally occupying a federal building, but at this point no-one has been harmed. Hopefully it will stay that way but I cannot be certain that it will.

What amuses me is the divide in which such stories are written and reported and how local governments respond, depending on exactly who it is that is undertaking the action. It's a sign of the polarised world that we live in.

You're right, we live in a weird world, but there is a difference between the emotion of terror due to someones actions and the legal deffiniton of terrorism under U.S. law. To be honest after the attack in Paris I immediately thought terrorism and still do. But did the act really meet the legal diffinition of terrorism under French law? I dont know.

As far as the Bundy group goes unless they meet the criteria for terrorism as defined under U.S. law they cannot be considered or tried as one. However, if they do cross that line then I say treat him like one and launch a drone strike against them, just like we do in other countries!

[mapuc]

Iran and Saudi Arabia has been fighting a war against each other by proxy for some years now

Some day this will turn into a direct war between these two countries and these two days event in Saudi Arabia and Iran could very well be the "start" of this war.

As Oberon said, we should stay outside this-I do fear that USA will make some kind of intervention in the strait of hormuz so the oil tankers can go in and out in this area.

Markus

[Oberon]

Well, Iran does have the strait by the balls so the USN would have to move into the strait if any threat is made...but if Iran is smart, and certainly they've been playing the game fairly smartly in recent years with the climbdown on their nuclear program and the deal with the US, then they'll leave the straits alone and promise that only defensive actions would be taken against Saudi warships in the area. Or perhaps bring in the Russian navy to patrol the area and escort oil tankers through.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Overturned the decision and awarded the maximum punishment of five years in prison.

Five years is the minimum.