Contact Report

[Amgrod]

I'm going to kill the damn torpedo manufacturers!

Stalked an Auxiliary Subchaser, set up a perfect Dick O'Kane approach, closed to 1000 yards, fired a spread of two torpedoes. Both detonate about 100 yards prematurely! Fired a third torpedo but the solution was already changing - it missed the bow by a HAIR. And then detonates 100 yards on the other side of the target. Three torpedoes wasted!

Cleared datum and listened to the contact fade away as resumed course. The yard master better have better detonators or he's the next one shot from the tubes!

(8 Dec 41 patrol, Gar Class, TMO 2.5. First time it all came together - meaning I got the manual torpedo shot setup correctly - and frankly a realistic result from what I've read. This sim's kinda realistic and I love it! )

[Armistead]

Fairly realistic.

Even though torps have dud rates, they're other values that come into play.

Try to hit at some angle
Use slow setting
In rough weather, use contact, calm water use influence.

If you're gonna shoot and know you have duds, shoot 4 aiming from front of bow to stern.

Also, make sure you use as shallow settings you can for escorts, even then they can run under.

[TorpX]

He he, better still, just avoid shooting at dangerous game until you get better torps.

Now you know why USN subs didn't sink very many of those ships.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Amgrod

The yard master better have better detonators or he's the next one shot from the tubes!

And there's the rub. The yard crews didn't know about it, and weren't to blame. The skippers and their crews didn't know about it, but were blamed for bad shooting and for making excuses. The high command didn't know about it, and didn't want to, because they were the ones doing the blaming. Admiral Christie was part of the team that developed those torpedoes in the first place, and he didn't want to hear about any possible flaws. It wasn't until Admiral Lockwood took charge and started actually testing the things that they knew for sure there was anything wrong.

Switching the pistols for different weather isn't realistic at all. There was no switch. Sometime in 1942 some enterprising skippers started having their torpedo chiefs go in and disable the magnetic heads altogether, which left them with contact only until the new torpedoes came out, which was late in 1943. Until then it was all rumor and legend, and nobody knew for sure. That's what they had to live with. Aren't you glad you don't?

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by TorpX

He he, better still, just avoid shooting at dangerous game until you get better torps.

Now you know why USN subs didn't sink very many of those ships.

Given that the hulls of Japanese auxiliary subchasers were made of wood, my philosophy is save your torpedoes and let your loyal termite allies do all the work.

[Amgrod]

Originally Posted by TorpX

He he, better still, just avoid shooting at dangerous game until you get better torps.

Now you know why USN subs didn't sink very many of those ships.

LOL yeah, except I'm finding so few ships on these early patrols that I'm going after anything I can find. Though I've learned the hard way a few times that merchies are better game than warships...

[Amgrod]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

And there's the rub. The yard crews didn't know about it, and weren't to blame. The skippers and their crews didn't know about it, but were blamed for bad shooting and for making excuses. The high command didn't know about it, and didn't want to, because they were the ones doing the blaming. Admiral Christie was part of the team that developed those torpedoes in the first place, and he didn't want to hear about any possible flaws. It wasn't until Admiral Lockwood took charge and started actually testing the things that they knew for sure there was anything wrong.

Switching the pistols for different weather isn't realistic at all. There was no switch. Sometime in 1942 some enterprising skippers started having their torpedo chiefs go in and disable the magnetic heads altogether, which left them with contact only until the new torpedoes came out, which was late in 1943. Until then it was all rumor and legend, and nobody knew for sure. That's what they had to live with. Aren't you glad you don't?

Any suggested books/resources to read up on this topic specifically? I've got a pretty good handle on WWII on an operational level, looking to get more into the tactical level now specifically with the Pacific Sub war. Thanks!

[Sailor Steve]

The Wiki article is a good place to start. It covers all the basis in a fairly straightforward manner, and gives some great references to look at.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo

Here is a good overview comparing the German and American torpedo troubles, which were quite similar in nature.
http://www.public.navy.mil/subfor/un...7/torpedo.html

Probably the best thing you can do is pick up a copy of Clay Blair's book Silent Victory. Second best would be Theodore Roscoe's United States Submarine Operations In World War Two.

[Amgrod]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The Wiki article is a good place to start. It covers all the basis in a fairly straightforward manner, and gives some great references to look at.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo

Here is a good overview comparing the German and American torpedo troubles, which were quite similar in nature.
http://www.public.navy.mil/subfor/un...7/torpedo.html

Probably the best thing you can do is pick up a copy of Clay Blair's book Silent Victory. Second best would be Theodore Roscoe's United States Submarine Operations In World War Two.

Thank you for the recommendations! Just read the wiki on the torp.

Does SH4/TMO 2.5 accurately model the error of running 10 feet below programmed depth? I've watched quite a few videos on YouTube and I don't see people explicitly taking that into account. Thoughts!

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Amgrod

Does SH4/TMO 2.5 accurately model the error of running 10 feet below programmed depth?

RFB models it, and I think TMO does, as well, but I'm not sure how accurately. The game allows some modes of failure to be put in, but not others. For instance, your torps don't porpoise in this game.

The BIG difference between our game and real life is this: Our torps may malfunction, but we have advance knowledge of this possibility, and can easily take steps to minimize the effects. The real-life captains had to observe, guess, and experiment. They had been lead to believe that the weapon was first-rate. They had few remedies available to them, and had to take a lot of heat when things didn't work out well. If they didn't attack, they were blamed for a lack of aggressiveness. If they attacked, but failed to sink the target, they were blamed for poor shooting. If they used more torps to get the job done, they were blamed for excessive expenditure.

LOL yeah, except I'm finding so few ships on these early patrols that I'm going after anything I can find. Though I've learned the hard way a few times that merchies are better game than warships...

Yeah, that can happen sometimes. At a certain point, you feel desperate to find something sinkable.

[scott613]

Hi Folks,

I seem to recall reading something about some US skippers illegally modifying the detonators because they knew they had a problem... Is that true ?

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by scott613

Hi Folks,

I seem to recall reading something about some US skippers illegally modifying the detonators because they knew they had a problem... Is that true ?

Yes, it was done. The magnetic influence exploders were often quietly deactivated at sea. Of course that helped, but it also brought you to the third of the triple-failure Mark 14 torpedo's shortcomings The weak impact detonator pin that often just crimped instead of firing.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by scott613

I seem to recall reading something about some US skippers illegally modifying the detonators because they knew they had a problem... Is that true ?

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Sometime in 1942 some enterprising skippers started having their torpedo chiefs go in and disable the magnetic heads altogether, which left them with contact only until the new torpedoes came out, which was late in 1943.

According to Clay Blair's Silent Victory they did indeed, and doctored their patrol reports by increasing tonnage values to justify the extra torpedoes expended.

[scott613]

Thanks guys - sorry I missed the earlier reference...