Attacking at 100 Realism. In need of tips from experts.

[depthtok33l]

Ever since I joined in February this year I've been constantly trying to learn new ways to play Silent Hunter 4 at a high realism. I am now able to play at level 90 realism but I still have Map Contacts Update on (I want to turn this off and play at 100).

AoB:
I currently use three methods in obtaining AoB.

• Using my eyes (estimation)
• Protractor (obviously this won't work at 100 if I'm not mistaken)
• Crew estimation of speed and target's course

I was wondering if there's a much easier and more accurate way of determining AoB. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Target's Speed:
I use two methods for this one.

• Crew estimation
• Target's distance covered in 3 minutes (Authentic Units)

The problem for me with the first method is that it's not always accurate - torpedoes most of the time always miss. For the second one, obviously I can't do that with 100 realism using the map.

As always, any tips would be greatly appreciated.

I've tried learning from this but it involves pausing the game and a calculator to play so...yeah. Its a pretty good guide but not for me.

Have a few mods installed:
TMO
RSRDC
OTC
ISE
Trav's Mod.

Cheers guys. Keep lurking.

[TorpX]

I am always happy to offer tips to those interested in realistic play.

AoB:
I currently use three methods in obtaining AoB.

• Using my eyes (estimation)
• Protractor (obviously this won't work at 100 if I'm not mistaken)
• Crew estimation of speed and target's course

The first listed, visual estimation, is what I usually use. It takes practice, and one gets rusty when you stop playing for a time. (I know this from first hand).


I'm not sure what you are referring to by "Protractor" (Aspect Ratio?). I skimmed Hitman's tutorial, and the method of using Aspect Ratio is a sound method, but requires you to know the ship's dimensions. Generally, I don't have this info, or am too lazy to try to find it, so I can't make use of this method.

The last, using map-contacts, and working backwards from plotted positions, works great in the game, but was never used in real-life. People will violently disagree with me, and say I'm all wrong. DO NOT BELIEVE THEM. The reason this method could not be used, is that they needed to estimate AoB, to plot course. They didn't plot course to calculate AoB. They had no way of knowing what the present course of the target was, except by estimation of the AoB. They could plot the targets course over time and figure out the Base Course, but targets would usually zig at frequent intervals, making this type of solution useless for fire-control purposes.

Target's Speed:
I use two methods for this one.

• Crew estimation
• Target's distance covered in 3 minutes (Authentic Units)

When I started playing SH4, I used the crew estimation button, but like you, found it was very erratic. Now, I never use it.

The second method, plotting over time, is, imo, the best method. The accuracy naturally depends on how good your plot is, and this is likely to be a major challenge. The stadimeter leaves a lot to be desired, and AoB estimates are a cause for concern. All of this explains why many targets escaped in WWII.

There are other methods for obtaining target speed.

Visual estimation. This is unlikely to be sufficiently accurate, except at short ranges. I don't think the ships' bow waves are very well modeled in this game.

Timing by Wire. In this method, the ship's transit is timed as it passes across the periscope reticle. This requires that the target be crossing the bow or stern, or that the speed of the sub be geometrically subtracted, to obtain an accurate result. This is a little messy. Also it requires that the length of the ship be known. Sometimes, I will try this as a check on my plotting.

In the USN, the plotting over time was used. Even if another method were to be used, a good plot was considered necessary for tactical purposes. For this reason, I favor plotting.

Note that I often pause the game to do plotting chores. Some object to this, and prefer using map-contacts instead. I don't consider map-contacts to be at all realistic. It gives 100% accurate information in real-time, on all sighted contacts, and real-life crews could never equal this. With the game the way it is, you basically have the choice of either pausing the game, and doing the work of plotting/calculating, or going with the super-ESP-map-contacts mode, and not really being challenged. It's too bad Ubisoft didn't incorporate some kind of error function to make the subs' tracking parties more human.

BTW, there is a utility in downloads called 'Solution Solver', that has a training mode, where you have a ship displayed at a random aspect, and you guess the correct AoB. This helps in AoB estimation.

[Sniper297]

I violently disagree.

Seriously, the main problem I have with AOB is what it SHOULD be initially - something less than 10. If the target isn't coming toward you then you're too far off the track for any kind of attack, you need to figure out his course and do whatever it takes to get ahead of him within 1000 yards of the track - without being seen so you can submerge near a firing position. Quickest way to do that is to take 2 or more range and bearing observations, draw a line through the positions, that gives you the target track. In most cases the sub would parallel the target for one or several hours while working into a position ahead, which not only gave a good idea of the speed but also the zigzag pattern, if any.

A good attack starts with being submerged at least 5000 yards ahead of the target 1000 yards off the track, and in that position the AOB will be around 5 to 10 degrees, and it won't change very much - then it will change rapidly as the range closes, too fast to keep up with.

For that reason I set the AOB to about 80 degrees (for a 90 degree torpedo track) so I don't have to set it just before firing.

Your mileage may vary, but for me AOB isn't a very useful tool for much of anything. But if you want to use it, like TorpX says, practice practice practice - I would suggest using "training wheels", turn auto targeting on, but instead of letting the autotargeting do all the work with your mind in neutral, take screenshots of different ships at various angle numbers. That way you'll have a library of what a port 30 or starboard 55 angle looks like when you turn off autotargeting to try it yourself.

[CapnScurvy]

depthtok33l, you may try downloading my "High Realism Tutorial" which gets into manual targeting with the "No map contact update" option selected. This option eliminates the ship silhouette from appearing on the map, making for a much harder (and more realistic) game. You get a 12% increase in "Realism Rating", second only to the 15% increase when selecting Manual Targeting over Auto Targeting.

The Tutorial explains basic Compass information, how the Position Keeper works, and how to plot a targets course on the Navigation Map with only the tools at hand as in real life. The fact is, there was anywhere from 12 to 15 crewmen involved in the "Fire Control Party" (nope, they aren't going to put out a fire.....they planned to make one!). This group is narrowed down to just one player when using 100% realism, so taking some liberty with using the pause game feature should be considered necessary to making a successful attack.

To respond directly to your question about AoB, a map plot will accurately give you AoB of a target if you've determined its estimated range and relative bearing from the subs position. Since your playing with OTC you'll be able to get a good estimate of range with the Stadimeter; using the Range Omnimeter; using Active Sonar; or from the Radar (if available). As was pointed out, taking two or more range and relative bearing readings to the map screen, then marking their position with the pencil, will give you the targets path of travel....which in turn gives you AoB. If you take these readings at a set time interval.....you'll get the targets estimated speed too. All from map plotting.

The Captain may have the ability to estimate these things by pure experience (you too if you play long enough), but he also relied on his Fire Control Party to do the work for him. Since your doing the work of a dozen men, take the time to learn the different aspects of the game which puts you in control of the entire process.

You mention using the crew for information will most always cause your torpedos to miss. Well, that's why you do it yourself. One small point that gets overlooked with a firing solution, whether your using Auto or Manual Targeting, is open the torpedo doors before firing! The delay that's figured into the solution when you don't have the doors open will cause a miss every time unless you're very close to the target. Always missing to the stern of the target?.....its the doors not opened.

[Sailor Steve]

This should help with practicing visually determining the AOB.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3467

[commandosolo2009]

RESERVED FOR A LATER WRITE-UP

Well, it all boils down to certain principles I follow

First thing I do is to project an arbitrary course with 30 degrees of spread on either sides of a reported convoy. This allows me to position myself and start a backwards search afterwards.

I always add 5 knots to reported speed of convoy or taskforce, this gives me a deadline to reach inside the projected cone and begin my search. This is heavily dependent on presence of aircrafts in my area (they usually are there).

Upon reaching target area, I start a compression to 128 so my sonarman and lookouts report first. My timing is a day search and transit ahead of found enemy. In S boats its difficult as top speed is 13 knots and a destroyer escort usually means that I have to be away of their scan zone by at least 15 km.

When I have an agreement between said enemy course and my observations, I skip ahead 15 kms and try to move my attack schedule to night where visibility is our friend.

As soon as its dark, I begin to reverse facing the enemy. Then I start a surfaced search with binos for their ships. When they are aft of me, I begin a 45 degree intercept keeping them on 270-090 line. That way I can always advance or reduce speed. About 10 kms to 300/070 I start my dive or surface approach. Sometimes weather is so bad that a surface approach has to be made with TBT and decks awash to stabilize.

Other times a moon lit night can just mean a subjerged attack within 5 km from target. I use a paper graph/protractor for maximum realism and a stopwatch to time observations.

When I have enough target information specially class, speed and range I begin a position keeping refinement. The TDC is then used to refine my bow angle estimations and a projected LOB to shooting is derived. My usual impact point is 1500 meters with bow angle of 90 degrees.

To calculate speed I use the wire-stopwatch-known length from manual and it is usually correct. My firing solution is then timed and a countdown to firing bearing is started. When the target fills a 0.25 ° marking on scope is when I dive at bow angle less than 45.

If I cant derive bow angle due to visibility, I usually wait for an approximation of 90° bow angle for the firing time. I also use arctan(length/range) to get reticle coverage at bearing.

With ideal firing = to tan (°)= length at 1500 m/1500m, I fire only at ideal reticle coverage.

If the target covers less reticle, I am prepared to do one of two things:

1- recalculate (depending on being detected and time available ( usually 3 mins to calculate), or,
2- dive and proceed under the merchant.

With time I can get decent skills to do it.

[Spraug]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

… One small point that gets overlooked with a firing solution, whether your using Auto or Manual Targeting, is open the torpedo doors before firing! The delay that's figured into the solution when you don't have the doors open will cause a miss every time unless you're very close to the target. Always missing to the stern of the target?.....its the doors not opened.

Oh yes, I learned that the hard way. Always open the tubes when you approach for an attack, because even when you don't need it for the initial attack (because you're Dick O'Kane-ing at short range on a slow target), it may come in so handy when that Small Engine Aft that you disregarded suddenly turns out to be a destroyer coming to get you. That small delay may be the difference between sinking and getting chased for an hour … or getting sunk. And don't worry if you have to dive, your crew will always close the tubes when you get too deep.