The future of Submarine simulations - Page 3

Julhelm · 07-15-13, 02:10 AM

Well to be honest, modders have it pretty cozy. They don't have to spend 50% of the time meeting predefined milestones or risk cancellation, nor are they at the whim of management who may at any time force huge redesigns, replace key members of the team or demand this or that focus because marketing says so.

Jimbuna · 07-15-13, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm

Well to be honest, modders have it pretty cozy. They don't have to spend 50% of the time meeting predefined milestones or risk cancellation, nor are they at the whim of management who may at any time force huge redesigns, replace key members of the team or demand this or that focus because marketing says so.

*COUGH*

Julhelm · 07-15-13, 09:14 AM

*Cough* what?

Jimbuna · 07-15-13, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm

*Cough* what?

Do you mod?

If so, what have you been involved with?

When I read a broad sweeping statement like yours I get to wondering the above because I can tell you now as far as GWX was concerned your most definitely incorrect.

desertstriker · 07-15-13, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm

Well to be honest, modders have it pretty cozy. They don't have to spend 50% of the time meeting predefined milestones or risk cancellation, nor are they at the whim of management who may at any time force huge redesigns, replace key members of the team or demand this or that focus because marketing says so.

it is also not as cozy as yo may think i think it is far from cozy knowing that some people will also never post in sub sim but only download their mods and only post when they have an issue. or when they are working on a mod and are being pestered when can "we" expect a release date or any updates for "us".
some of our excellent modders have severe OCD when it comes to the historical accuracy of some of their mods which seems to be a thankless trait for many.

Julhelm · 07-15-13, 02:38 PM

FYI I was a modder for about a decade before I became a game developer by trade - starting out with Quake2, Half-Life at the time when mods were really synonymous with 'total conversion' and I've also modded Strike Fighters (a series that's been kept alive by modders to a far greater extent than SH in my opinion) for many years and IMO being a modder is a very cozy place.

When I mod, I can afford to take risks and since I have a day job that pays my bills I can take as much time as I want to in order to make it perfect. When I made mods for SF, I only made stuff that interested me personally, which happens to be obscure what-if designs. And I could afford to make them because I mod for me and if someone else likes it and gives it a 5 star rating that's cool. So you never have to answer to anybody.

On the commercial games I've worked on, it's always been the opposite: minimum risk, cloning what is already popular and suits making the key decisions and telling you to in effect start over from square one after crunching for weeks in order to meet a milestone or present a playable build. Or crunching for weeks on end because someone somewhere has decided that the game gets released on this specific date. Or getting laid off after said crunch

As a modder, you really have complete freedom to do whatever you want to and if someone pesters you about a release date you just say '2 weeks' and go about your business. Your only constraints are literally free time and how moddable your base game is.

So yes, modders have done a lot to fix the various iterations of the SH franchise, but I take issue with the somewhat irreverent-sounding attitude some display against the devs on internet forums. Yes, the games are broken on release, but it's not because they're being made by a bunch of incompetents and need the modders to step in and show how it's done. They're broken because there were factors outside the devs' control and they had to compromise or face cancellation or layoffs.

Jimbuna · 07-15-13, 03:21 PM

Most interesting (and I'm happy taking your word) because knowing a few people in the business they have told of similar experiences.

One small difference irl can sometimes be as a member of such a large community as we have here and informing people of WIP (not my decision as I wasn't the project manager) and in so doing building up peoples expectations which in itself can be counter productive because of the self induced build up of pressure....but I guess your aware of that.

BTW...I really enjoyed Quake2.

commandosolo2009 · 07-28-14, 01:13 AM

If any of you play DCS world, I think at some point Naval units was said to be on a planned list of developments, or maybe delegated to 3rd party developers. Take it as 0% confirmed but if it does, boy we're gonna have things to sink. Not sure how this impacts this convo, but a shot in the dark often saved sailors...

07-15-13, 03:21 PM	#7
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,344 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Most interesting (and I'm happy taking your word) because knowing a few people in the business they have told of similar experiences. One small difference irl can sometimes be as a member of such a large community as we have here and informing people of WIP (not my decision as I wasn't the project manager) and in so doing building up peoples expectations which in itself can be counter productive because of the self induced build up of pressure....but I guess your aware of that. BTW...I really enjoyed Quake2. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

07-15-13, 02:10 AM	#1
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 690 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	Well to be honest, modders have it pretty cozy. They don't have to spend 50% of the time meeting predefined milestones or risk cancellation, nor are they at the whim of management who may at any time force huge redesigns, replace key members of the team or demand this or that focus because marketing says so.

07-15-13, 09:14 AM	#3
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 690 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	Cough what?

07-15-13, 02:38 PM	#6
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 690 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	FYI I was a modder for about a decade before I became a game developer by trade - starting out with Quake2, Half-Life at the time when mods were really synonymous with 'total conversion' and I've also modded Strike Fighters (a series that's been kept alive by modders to a far greater extent than SH in my opinion) for many years and IMO being a modder is a very cozy place. When I mod, I can afford to take risks and since I have a day job that pays my bills I can take as much time as I want to in order to make it perfect. When I made mods for SF, I only made stuff that interested me personally, which happens to be obscure what-if designs. And I could afford to make them because I mod for me and if someone else likes it and gives it a 5 star rating that's cool. So you never have to answer to anybody. On the commercial games I've worked on, it's always been the opposite: minimum risk, cloning what is already popular and suits making the key decisions and telling you to in effect start over from square one after crunching for weeks in order to meet a milestone or present a playable build. Or crunching for weeks on end because someone somewhere has decided that the game gets released on this specific date. Or getting laid off after said crunch As a modder, you really have complete freedom to do whatever you want to and if someone pesters you about a release date you just say '2 weeks' and go about your business. Your only constraints are literally free time and how moddable your base game is. So yes, modders have done a lot to fix the various iterations of the SH franchise, but I take issue with the somewhat irreverent-sounding attitude some display against the devs on internet forums. Yes, the games are broken on release, but it's not because they're being made by a bunch of incompetents and need the modders to step in and show how it's done. They're broken because there were factors outside the devs' control and they had to compromise or face cancellation or layoffs.

07-28-14, 01:13 AM	#8
commandosolo2009 Grey Wolf Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Egypt Posts: 813 Downloads: 132 Uploads: 0	If any of you play DCS world, I think at some point Naval units was said to be on a planned list of developments, or maybe delegated to 3rd party developers. Take it as 0% confirmed but if it does, boy we're gonna have things to sink. Not sure how this impacts this convo, but a shot in the dark often saved sailors...