Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE

[urfisch]

what about the torpedo dropping airplanes, someone created? somehow it must be possible, to add this to our boat! afaik there are speedboats with torpedos. what about them? do they attack with torpedos?

by the way, how did you manage to increase the attack radius of the boat?? and has someone tested to add parameters/controllers from sh4 or sh5 to sh3? maybe the exe is able to handle these, or even some of them?

just a thought.

[h.sie]

@Urfisch: Nice idea. The only thing left is to realise it. Do you want to try it out? I'm not able to do and I'm also not willing to learn how to model units. Too old for that.

But maybe anyone else wants to help? Let me please know....

I guess there have been hundreds of talented modders who tried to get some AI-Subs in the conventional way (without Assembler hack) - without success so far. So I think there is no chance in the conventional way. Last chance is a nice hack of the AI, but as I previously told: I don't know how.

Ask SSB how he managed to enlarge the radius. He knows. I guess he enlarged the max_radius in wpn_cannon controller.

[h.sie]

@SSB: Setting the depth of the AI-Sub to 10m seems to work. It still shoots virtual torpedoes, and the destroyers fight them with DepthCharges and Hedgehogs (but also with deckguns)

[FIREWALL]

Everyday I come back here to check out whats new I'm again amazed.

I'm in 1945 with old Starforce ver. of SH3 with GWX somewhat heavily modded and so far have survived @ 100 % realism. And have tried to play like your mod do's.

Your mod will bring it to a whole new level.


When war ends or I get killed I will toss old disc, refomat and install Encore SHIII StarForce free disc and GWX Gold.

YOURS IS THE FIRST MOD THEN I INSTALL !!!!

Sorry, Got alittle carried away.

[urfisch]

Originally Posted by h.sie

@Urfisch: Nice idea. The only thing left is to realise it. Do you want to try it out? I'm not able to do and I'm also not willing to learn how to model units. Too old for that.

But maybe anyone else wants to help? Let me please know....

I guess there have been hundreds of talented modders who tried to get some AI-Subs in the conventional way (without Assembler hack) - without success so far. So I think there is no chance in the conventional way. Last chance is a nice hack of the AI, but as I previously told: I don't know how.

Ask SSB how he managed to enlarge the radius. He knows. I guess he enlarged the max_radius in wpn_cannon controller.

yes, i sign on that. i think its not possible the conventional way.

it was more or less a general question to all, who are dealing with this subject here...i am also not the guy who diggs into the coding stuff and sort it out. im sorry for that...would be a great help, to have someone like privateer, anvart, diving duck or tdw challenging with that! even if its only some hind or little tips...

anyone, who has some experience in the exe or hardcoded structure in general would know where to search for a solution to our problem. in theory the game IS able to handle ai subs, i am really sure about that.

[h.sie]

@FIREWALL: Thank you:very much!!!

[makman94]

IMO, there are two things, that are EQUAL important for the success of ''wolfpacks'' project !

first one is to make the u-boats acting like u-boats ...meaning diving,throw torps...etc .

second one is that these u-boats must NOT be 'goofies' ! that means that must be developed ,at least, a basic 'inteligence' for the bdu considering these subs.

i see the community to be 'sticked' only to the first one without taking in consideration the second one.
imo, the second one must be solved or developed (if possible ) first.i guess that if you managed to get some success on this particular point that means that the way for 'clever' AI routines will be open too and this is what is really needed to be developed first .

becuase if you managed to get success on the first one only (without anything done for the second part) ....i am afraid that this will make the game more worst than... better. whenever a convoy is sited and a pack of u-boats just 'appears' and throw torps ...has no interest at all . will it be some randomness at the 'appearance' of these u-boats and the routines that will follow ? or it will be the same scene all the time ? and player will interact to all this in which way ? becuase if it turned the player to be only just a watcher (during or after ) the attack... well do you really see any interest on this ?

so, my point is that the second part is what must be examined-researched first .if this is solved then the success of the first one (if we guess that this is solved too) will be given . but without the second ...the first one seems to me that will be boring .

of course i am wishing all the best to these efforts so far and for sure are one more step forward but i really believe that second part must take into consideration !

just my two cents guys...

[h.sie]

@makman:

In the last 30-50 posts we discussed that topic: Interaction with the BDU and of course a simple BDU-AI is in work. The question whether the wolfpack subs will find the convoy mainly depends on the quality of the players estimation of the convoys course and speed (beneath some random factors as in RL and the question if there are wolfpacks available in the current time and region or not). The BDU will tell whether to keep contact and sent contact reports or to attack alone. The interception area is calculated from the BDU-AI and the Subs will be sent to this area and wait for the convoy. The better your contact reports, the higher the chance for finding the convoy.
This point described above can be done more or less well, depending on the time spent for programming the BDU-AI. In this point I'm slightly optimistic. But it will take time.

A cruical - and thus most discussed - point is the behaviour of the subs when attacking the convoy. Sergbutos AI-Subs attack the convoy with virtual torpedoes over a long range and will be treated as surface-ships by the escorts. Not very nice. But a "realistic" playing player (who does not follow the fight with his external cam) won't see that all in detail. He will only look for short times through his periscope and maybe see that the escorts suddenly leave their position - the right time for the player to do an own attack. Or he will suddenly see some burning ships far away. But a real kaleun didn't have an external cam to investigate in detail what happens. So I think, the most important thing, deflecting the escorts, can be achieved. Of course, it will not be perfect.

I also try (don't know if possible) to synchronize the attack with the BDU. The AI-Subs wait with their attack until BDU orders to attack. Will be hard to do. This is one point of my current work: Trying to disable the AI subs weapons until order to attack.

We won't get a perfect solution. But I hope a better one than the current solution: The current solution is as follows: AI-Subs are scripted in convoys. Even without any contact report they start to attack as far as they are rendered as 3D objects. This is static behaviour - without any player-interaction. I/we hope to achieve a better solution than that - but it will be away from being perfect, I know.

As soon as I see that a better solution than the current one (AI subs scripted into convoys) is not possible, I stop wasting my time with it.

[SquareSteelBar]

Originally Posted by h.sie

@SSB: Setting the depth of the AI-Sub to 10m seems to work. It still shoots virtual torpedoes, and the destroyers fight them with DepthCharges and Hedgehogs (but also with deckguns)

In which file do you that setting? And for what reason? Maybe I missed something the last days due to lack of time...

[h.sie]

@SSB: In the .mis file. But forget it, it seems to make no difference. Still treated as surfaced ship, even in height=-10.0 in .mis file.

[SquareSteelBar]

Yep, it doesn't matter what depth/hight is set in .mis file.

[h.sie]

@SSB: Limiting ammo seems to work well, and CrewRating=4 is really overkill.

[Hitman]

What about simply making the wolfpack subs invisible, both to player and AI. They will just be spawned, shoot at the convoy whatever limited suplly of ammo we give them, and then have the escorts go to their position in a fruitless search and maybe depthcharging

But if the escorts can't see them, they won't shoot with surface weapons. They will just come to investigate, as they do when a merchant is suddenly hit by a torpedo. Maybe our efforts would be better spent trying to have real AI torpedoes impact on the merchants, shot by invisible "pseudo-uboats", because the escorts are guaranteed to leave the area to investigate and throw some DCs around at random IF they notice a torpedo hit in the convoy

EDIT: The main problem to make AI shoot torpedoes IIRC was that it won't calculate lead angle correctly for such a slow weapon. Maybe making a special fast torpedo or even accoustic ones would work.

[h.sie]

@Hitman: Yep, I also thought about making the AI-Sub invisible. I don't know exactly from what it depends whether an object is visible or not, but it must somehow be connected with the objects dimensions (size) - maybe the 3D dimensions defined in the .dat??? Must be investigated!

@SSB: Do you have some spare time for that? How to make the AI-Sub invisible?


Regarding "AI-torpedoes": Nice idea, but: can you tell me how to do that?

My problem with these surely nice ideas is that I'm unfortunately restricted on what I am able to do, or what others can contribute. I am currently not able to make an AI-torpedo. But if someone can contribute one, I'll be thankful. Can someone?

[SquareSteelBar]

Originally Posted by h.sie

....@SSB: Do you have some spare time for that?...

That's my main problem...