How to differ hardware from software problems...

[Skybird]

... with a grafics board?

My nVidia 7800Gs (AGP, 256), is two years old, and in some 3D-games produces corrupted lines that have their origin in close bundles of pixels that in a beam-like fashion spread over the screen, and eventually can be seen only when having a given camera angle. I had just tested three different driver versions within short time, and deinstalled them via the windows console, cleaned the registry via tool, rebooted, and installed the new driver.

Is there any way or a tool that helps me to decide wether I have a hardware problem with the board that indicates it is dying, or just a software problem with either the driver, or the general system constellation? I ran dxdiag, but it found no problems when testing directdraw and direct3D. But that dxdiag does not look like a thorough hardware test anyway.

Board is not overclocked, dust gets cleaned inside the tower every 3-4 months. So while I find dust in there, of course, it is not in masses, and the tower gets cooled with 3 ventilators (2 small in, 1 bigger out). Temps are always normal here.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Based on my troubled times with my old computer, I'd lean in the direction of hardware.

Over a period of 6 years with my old PC, ... went through 3 AGP video cards ascending in video ram size 128 mb, then a 256 mb, and finally a 512 mb AGP graphics card over those 6 years. When the last video card over heated [512 meg video card] and blew up, I came to grips with replacing the entire rig. Throwing money at SUPER old stuff is like throwing money away - twice over - and then some.

Found on E-Bay in March 2008 the rig I use now for $650 bucks including shipping.

Got a Gateway GT5628 with QUAD core each core running at 2.4 Ghz, 3 gig of RAM, 500 gig hard drive, recordable DVD, 1-gig network card, blah, blah, blah. The graphics card is a crappy NVidia 8500 GT [PCI-e] with 256 meg ram ... but the graphics in SH4 even with this piece of junk, blows the doors off of any AGP card.

My Sour Advice:
Stop dumping money in an old box that only can have AGP as a video card. Move on ... It's not worth the time and money "fixing".

[Skybird]

Problem is money, of course. Anyway, in no way i am in need for a new system, regarding performance. I am almost zero interested in new stuff, and the old things I run, run happily on my rig, and smooth. So the new things possible with new rigs and new graphics - I can and want take no real benefit of. It may sound archaic - but I do not need these speed boosts. nothing I have I need them for.

Also, I am becoming an old stubborn fossile. I'm getting increasingly angry over the tech crap we get sold today, and lifespans of products becoming shorter and shorter, and this spiral of always newer, better, faster, wider, higher. It makes me angry needing to even consider buying a new computer and helping this crazy race by that. May sound crazy for some, but I do not want a faster computer.

Will need to wait for one year before even considering a new rig, since in the next months house and appartment, both property, need some expensive fixes which have priority.

If needed I will try to put back an old FX5900 I still have somewhere, if it still functions. even considered to get a used Asus mainboard like mine, as backup - everything else can be (and has been) replaced easily, but if the board brakes, it's show over.

No tool for testing for hardware malfunctioning, then? What irritates me is that I only have problems with apparently a specific higher 3D function, I do not have general display problems beside that.

AGP 7600 cards are still available, and for below 100 bucks. I just don't now if they are better or worse than my current one, which perfectly matched all my needs (as I said, new games do not interest me anymore). As an emergency fix, a 7600 eventually will need to do until next autumn or so, if the old 5900 board does not work anymore. So far, it does.

[Hylander_1314]

Skybird,

From what I understand in your post, general use doesn't cause problems. No issues with scanning the web, and reading and posting at forums and basic stuff. Where you are running into problems is it in 3D applications like games?

Some things to check, and if this is ewdundant, sorry, but I don't everything you've done so far, so I'm taking stabs at ideas to possibly help you resolve this issue.

Since you said you use older games and stay away from the newer ones, your 7800 should be fine.

What drivers versions did you try by chance? I know the in the old days with my old Nvidia card, I would have to swap drivers to fly Rowan's Battle of Britain, but if I tried to fly B-17II The Mighty Eighth, I would get the same graphics problem and would have to swap the drivers. Same thing happenned to Battle of Britain if I used the drivers that worked for B-17.

The latest 180.48 drivers work on my 8800 series cards, but I'm not sure if they support the 7800 series cards. The other ones I used were the 178.13s and the 178.15 drivers with no issues.

The other question, is if your video card has a cooling fan. The fan could be getting weak, and allowing the card and gpu to overheat while running 3D application, but with general use, the card isn't under any real heavy load, so you don't see it.

You can look at this site for software to monitor your system, and or test your components,

http://www.guru3d.com/

Hope this helps!

[Skybird]

I was on driver 84.x for long, and was fine, I then picked a used smile price copy of UT3 for less 10€ (I know i know, but some oldfashioned rock'n roll for that price was a steal), but it did not run with that driver, so I update to the most recent available at that time, that was some 178.x. The game ran nicely that way, but on rare occaisons I had these currputing lines emerging from terrain features, sending loighttowers in to the sky or pipelines through the landscape. It was no major distracction, but still a bit annoying, also it started to happen in Oblivion as well. I then switched driver again, and it was from the archive listed for my type of board on the nvidia homepage, the last of the two digit range of drivers, a 94.x. Frequency at which the problem appeared, changed. Last i am now with the 175.19, since I found it to be recommended around the web, but with it, corrupting lines in both games are worst ever. In Oblivion, only outside landscape is affected, never inside scenery. Haven't tested it with all stuff I have, since I do not play much anymore, but the probelkm is absent in SH3 and Steel Fury.

Last system cleaning was end of Octobre, including removing the graphicsboard and getting rid of the dust in the fan and cooler. at that time the fan moved easily and free. I use compressed air, and a soft natural hair brush, not touching chips and RAM components.

No problems whatever in normal handling, Explorer, Word, desktop, video.

I try that website, thanks.

[CaptainHaplo]

Skybird,

Sounds like its the renderer in the software - not the vid card. It could be the card - but only due to heat and you seem to be able to rule that out.

With SH4 for example, alot of people got graphical glitches at the highest settings - like weird lines around their sub, etc. My money would be on the software side - either driver related or in how specific games are drawing the graphics. Since you mentioned it is viewable at only "specific camera angles" - this is a great pointer at it being game drawing code itself - or the vid driver.

Here is a good test you can run. Play a game where you start getting this corruption on the screen. Try to get it to spread like you described so that it covers the screen. Then exit the game (don't reboot) and run a few other things - normal applications, etc. If the corruption remained only in the game and doesn't show up outside it - you have your answer.

You can always roll to an old graphics driver if it continues to be a problem - rolling back to what used to work without an issue often confirms a driver problem. Granted may make some other games not work - but its a temporary test.

[Skybird]

i will try that run-game-jump-to-desktop thing.

Of course i am happy if it is just software-related, but I tends to solve software issue the klingon way: deleting the HD and reinstall evertyhing. seen that way, I am not so happy.

Just tested for corrupting lines in SBP and FS9, no glitches showed up there.

If it is software renderer, as you said: does this mean to reinstall the game, or may it be caused by some bad files in Windows itself, maybe due to the many driver switches?

I wonder a bit that there is no hardware testing software for gfx cards, as there are RAM test programs.

[Skybird]

CaptainHaplo, according to your test it seems to be the software, not the hardware. Will try to reinstall the games in question over the next days. Thanks!

[Thomen]

There can be a couple of reasons for your problem.

1.) Check if the hardware drivers are up to date and if someone reported problems with said drivers in certain games.

2.) Overheating! I had the same problem in multiple games with several different cards and the problem for me was that the video card just got to hot. Even though the case might stay relatively cool, the GPU can and will overheat if it is not cooled sufficiently.

3.) It is also possible that the video card does not work properly with certain games. Try adjusting the graphic options in the games, and see if that fixes it.

[Hylander_1314]

From what you describe as the "lightshafts" or "pipelines" may be related to the dither textures not being rendered properly by the video card, which would be a software issue. Or the drivers for the card not rendering them properly.

I know over at A2A Simulations, with the new and improved Battle of Britain II Wings of Valor, folks who try to run the game on a rig with integrated video, the symptoms you describe are a common problem, that no one has figured out a way to correct. In the 2D map where the strategic, and tactical stuff is done, the people don't have a problem but when they go to the 3D enviornment, the lightshafts of different blocky color appear. The almost look like kalidascope of color. So as Thomen mentioned, you may wish to check around different forums to see if there are any specific issues with your video card, and or recommended drivers for it.

[Skybird]

The problem first became obvious with UT3, and not before I switched drivers, it infested Oblivion as well. So far, these are the only ones. I will do a clean again tomorrow, the last one is notmlong ago,l but maybe I have overseen something. I will uninstall both games then, and reinstall Oblivion.

Thanks to everybody contributing his thoughts.

[Hylander_1314]

Bitte Mein Herr!

It's no trouble. These little issues can drive a person madd.

[CaptainHaplo]

No problem mate.

Since its just in those two games - I am sticking with my original thought - its likely how it interacts with the hardware - so its a rendering issue on those 2 games. If it is - a reinstall won't fix it, but it won't hurt to try! Good luck!