RADAR on ships

[Crannogman]

Is there any evidence that ships equipped with radar perform better (fire more accurately and/or at longer range) than their optical-only counterparts?

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Crannogman

Is there any evidence that ships equipped with radar perform better (fire more accurately and/or at longer range) than their optical-only counterparts?

Are you speaking in general or in the game? Radar was a far more reliable instrument under conditions of poor visibility than optical range finding, and it could not be hampered by smoke screens or dazzle camouflage patterns. A proficient radar operator could obtain an accurate plot to target almost at once, whereas optical range finding demanded repeated observations to build up an accurate range estimate.

Radar in particular, altered the art of spotting, since shell splashes proved to be easily visible on radar and gave a very accurate correction. The very success of fire-control radar meant that most Allied warships had discarded their spotting float planes by 1943, since these could not operate at night and were a severe fire hazard if their ships were hit by enemy fire. With the introduction of Mark 3 radar, the USN all but abandoned traditional spotting in favor of rocking salvos back and forth across the measured target range.

[CCIP]

As for the game, I believe ships do not fire guns on radar contact, but radar will give them an indication of your position that they'll move to investigate. The other important thing is that ships in the game have a "passive" and "alert" state. The difference between those states, other than behaviour, is that their sensors get an immediate performance boost when they switch to alert. So as soon as the enemy picks you up on radar, their visual detection range jumps (depends on the mods you're playing with, but we're usually talking about at least a 50% increase), and if you happen to be in sighting range, they will fire. The net result is that ships with radar WILL usually end up firing on you from farther away. However from all I've seen of gunnery in SH4, they will still actually fire on you via what the game considers visual contact.

[Armistead]

Agree with CCIP, I've never been fired on except visual contact. Usually if ships go into alert mode, their blinker top light starts flashing, depending on mods, some horns.

With a mod like TMO, visuals can reach out fairly far, about as far as radar during the day, 10,000 yards. Usually radar picks you up, you'll see escorts coming your way, u can turn and run and get out of radar zone, they go back to stations.

With many mods radar was set to pick you up at 0 feet, which is unrealistic and one of the air radars worked as a surface. Think tater had a fix for this with TMO, others have adjusted radar height some. Also sub profile has values related to radar, waves, etc., .........stay skinny.

and in bad weather if they have radar, they'll send a escort right up your arse, pay attention if you get in close during a storm.....get the APR.

[Crannogman]

I ran a test (of coastal guns) at Midway the other day, with a raid by a lone Yamato (because why not?) coming from the Northwest and circling the atoll clockwise.

The Yamato seemed to detect an anchored battleship fairly quickly, and indeed fixed its main guns on the Colorado-class, but did not fire. A number of destroyer in the anchorage poured a fusillade of 5" shells into the Yamato, which sailed silently by while fixed on the more distant battleship. For a while I thought Yamato was broken, until it passed between a trio of destroyers (to its port) and the atoll & battleship (to starboard). At this point, its primary and starboard secondary batteries remained trained on the battleship, but the port-side secondary came to life and quickly dispatched the destroyers.

The Colorado was the Westernmost of a line of 3 ships; easternmost was an armed trawler, and in the middle some tin can. As the Yamato drew closer, they opened up in succession from east to west (not in order of longest- to shortest-ranged guns or (presumably) optics). The Yamato and Colorado opened up about the same time (amazingly the Yamato was sunk by the 5th salvo), the first time the Yamato had fired to starboard despite multiple targets firing upon it.

So it does seems there is some other limitation on engagement range. I am using RSRDC, OTC, and ISE. Is this engagement distance hard-coded, or does it have to do with sensor and gun data that can be modified?

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Crannogman

So it does seems there is some other limitation on engagement range. I am using RSRDC, OTC, and ISE. Is this engagement distance hard-coded, or does it have to do with sensor and gun data that can be modified?

I've only played around with surface battles a little, but I observed somewhat similar behavior. I got the impression that it sometimes takes a while for the AI to decide if/where to fire. Like you, I first thought maybe something was 'broken'.

AFAIK, there is only one file quantity that regulates max fire range for surface guns; meaning everything heavier than an AA gun will have the same max fire range. Obviously, this doesn't make much sense, a 4 inch gun and a 16 inch gun would be used differently.

[Crannogman]

Originally Posted by TorpX

I've only played around with surface battles a little, but I observed somewhat similar behavior. I got the impression that it sometimes takes a while for the AI to decide if/where to fire. Like you, I first thought maybe something was 'broken'.

AFAIK, there is only one file quantity that regulates max fire range for surface guns; meaning everything heavier than an AA gun will have the same max fire range. Obviously, this doesn't make much sense, a 4 inch gun and a 16 inch gun would be used differently.

Sad face.

I wonder if it's possible to make illumination affect spotting at night. Often times alerted ships start blinking signal lights and shining searchlights - it seems this should make them more visible to nearby forces

[TorpX]

IDK.

On occasion someone comes up with a clever way to goad the game into doing something good, but at it's core it is an oversimplified torpedo shoot-'em-up.

We really need someone (not Ubisoft, of course) to make a next generation sub simulation.

[Armistead]

never paid attention to subs visual when enemy searchlights come on. for a fact, their searchlights and star shells will light u up for visuals. you may not be seen, but if a star shell lands near you, they'll start blasting. have noticed if a one ship gets a visual on you, usually ships out of visual range will start blasting as well.

i play with my own night env mod and cut the search lights off all ships but dds and escorts. fact is, in most cases a sub around last thing they will do is all cut on the lights. i don't think the sub ai gets any benefit from enemy have searchlights on.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Armistead

... have noticed if a one ship gets a visual on you, usually ships out of visual range will start blasting as well.

Well, that makes sense; once something goes off, they know there's a sub nearby.