Question for the naval design experts

[the_frog]

Hello,

the WoW models are all acurate, including equipment and weapon details. That comes at the cost of a very high poly count. Also, the texturing (all details have individual texture files) is not ideal for SH3 purposes.

Worse, some of the hulls and details are distorted. Especially guns have often bended barrels, deformed muzzles etc. Considering the overall high quality of the models, I think these defects result from the exporting process.

Many of the hulls, however, are well done and may serve as templates or starting point for new SH3 models. I do not think we should spend too much time on re-working the models for SH3; building them from scratch is likely an easier task for an experienced 3D geek.

One group of models is an exeption -- those created as background decoration for scenarios, such as Operation Dynamo. These models are fairly well done, with reasonable poly counts and often one single texture file. The Goliath tug is an example, the naval trawler/drifter is another. Also Medway Queen, Lorina, and some of the smaller boats look fine.

The model that caught my attention was the HMAS Vampire. I have been thinking of re-doing the V&W destroyers since a while and so I had closer look. The model ist accurate but I realised that it is an Admiralty V leader and not one of the more standard Admiralty Vs and Ws. So, it is not the best representative of that group of destroyers (which anyway was pretty diverse). So, I decided to try what can be done during some brief evening sessions:


... not too bad for a few hours of work ...

@kendras: The HMS Warspite has models of the 45ft motor pinnace and the 45ft fast motorboat. You may consider to use them for the KGV; the textures are individual but may require colour adjustment. There is also a model of the 35ft fast motorboat but I like the one I did better

Sorry for the long text, including the shameless self-advertising

Cheers

Originally Posted by the_frog

One group of models is an exeption -- those created as background decoration for scenarios, such as Operation Dynamo. These models are fairly well done, with reasonable poly counts and often one single texture file. The Goliath tug is an example

@kendras: The HMS Warspite has models of the 45ft motor pinnace and the 45ft fast motorboat. You may consider to use them for the KGV; the textures are individual but may require colour adjustment.

So, I may try to import these models for SH3.

When I add the newly imported Goliath tugboat in a mission, SH3 is stuck on the launching screen, and I have to kill the program to go out. Could you say me what's wrong ? Here is the imported unit :

https://www.mediafire.com/file/y6qia...0tug%20boat.7z

[VonDos]

Originally Posted by Kendras

When I add the newly imported Goliath tugboat in a mission, SH3 is stuck on the launching screen, and I have to kill the program to go out. Could you say me what's wrong ? Here is the imported unit :

https://www.mediafire.com/file/y6qia...0tug%20boat.7z

Hi Kendras!
That's amazing, i also was working on this little model :P
At moment, i'm just mapping textures (early wip phase):



Best regards,
Vd

[the_frog]

Originally Posted by VonDos

Hi Kendras!
That's amazing, i also was working on this little model :P
At moment, i'm just mapping textures (early wip phase):



Best regards,
Vd

In case you want a working model of the Hotchkiss 6-pounder, I did once a model of the 3-pounder. Since very similar, it might not take much to create the 6-pounder, too.
Otherwise, remove them and replace it by more modern devices

[VonDos]

Originally Posted by the_frog

In case you want a working model of the Hotchkiss 6-pounder, I did once a model of the 3-pounder. Since very similar, it might not take much to create the 6-pounder, too.
Otherwise, remove them and replace it by more modern devices

If you want, 6-pounder could be an interesting addition, not only for this unit =) Can you create them please?

Best regards,
Vd

Originally Posted by Kendras

When I add the newly imported Goliath tugboat in a mission, SH3 is stuck on the launching screen, and I have to kill the program to go out.

So, I have the same problem for the Gremyashchy !

[the_frog]

Originally Posted by Kendras

So, I have the same problem for the Gremyashchy !

Have you tried using small texture files?

Originally Posted by the_frog

Have you tried using small texture files?

That was the right way ! I put out of the .dat file the big textures, and now SH3 runs fine ! Thank you Sir !

 

Originally Posted by VonDos

Hi Kendras!
That's amazing, i also was working on this little model :P
At moment, i'm just mapping textures (early wip phase)

[VonDos]

Here's my own WIP version assembled for trials:



Note old paddle tug's textures...

Just a question: how we can release those works without copyright problems? Can we ask someone permissions for fair use?

Best regards,
Vd

[the_frog]

@VonDos & kendras:

The tug looks good with the original well as with the SH textures.

Whom to ask for permission to release the models? Those who ripped and uploaded them? The original owner? The release of the ripped models is likely covered by the webpages statement that all models are only for private use. Is non-profit distribution of the models for other games alos covered? No idea.

I will use the models as already stated -- as kind of 3D plans for my own creations in case I cannot find useful plans.

There are already models of the Gnevny-/Gremyashchiy-/Project 7-type destroyers in SH3/SH4. They are rather simple. The WoW model, however, is a different thing. It captures nicely the fine lines of those ocean greyhounds. The Italian design influence is striking

[gap]

Originally Posted by Kendras

This one would be perfect for harbours !

https://p3dm.ru/files/avio/other_avi...g-goliath.html

...or for a WWI mod, since she served in the US navy from 1918 to 1919 as
escort/rescue tug and patrol vessel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Goliah_(SP-1494)

Apparently, Goliah had three sisters, all built by Dialogue & Co of Camden between 1907 and 1908:
Hercules, Ontario and Western.
It is my understanding that their design is all but uncommon for a tugboat of their period, so I suppose we could import the model in game as a more generic "old US tugboat", "old oceangoing tug" or something along these lines.

Originally Posted by the_frog

the WoW models are all acurate, including equipment and weapon details. That comes at the cost of a very high poly count. Also, the texturing (all details have individual texture files) is not ideal for SH3 purposes.

...

Many of the hulls, however, are well done and may serve as templates or starting point for new SH3 models. I do not think we should spend too much time on re-working the models for SH3; building them from scratch is likely an easier task for an experienced 3D geek.

Good to know, thanks.

Indeed, it is difficult finding free 3D meshes that fit perfectly all the cracteristics of the ideal SH model but, as you said, those models canbe used as templates to speed up the modelling process. As an amateur 3D modeller, I often spend more time looking for pictures and construction plans or (when I don't find them) trying to figure out shapes and proportions, than in actual modelling lol.

Originally Posted by the_frog

Worse, some of the hulls and details are distorted. Especially guns have often bended barrels, deformed muzzles etc. Considering the overall high quality of the models, I think these defects result from the exporting process.

Really? I didn't notice that, but I must admit that I have only downloaded those models ans added them to my personal collection without having a closer look to them in a 3D editor.

Distortions like the ones you are describing often happen when models are ripped from memory. I can be wrong, but I think that WoW and WoT have their own model editors, capable of reading/writing game files, so the bent/deformed elements could actually be part of damage models

Originally Posted by the_frog

One group of models is an exeption -- those created as background decoration for scenarios, such as Operation Dynamo. These models are fairly well done, with reasonable poly counts and often one single texture file. The Goliath tug is an example, the naval trawler/drifter is another. Also Medway Queen, Lorina, and some of the smaller boats look fine.

Originally Posted by the_frog

The model that caught my attention was the HMAS Vampire. I have been thinking of re-doing the V&W destroyers since a while and so I had closer look. The model ist accurate but I realised that it is an Admiralty V leader and not one of the more standard Admiralty Vs and Ws. So, it is not the best representative of that group of destroyers (which anyway was pretty diverse). So, I decided to try what can be done during some brief evening sessions:

... not too bad for a few hours of work ...

Looks promising. What sub-class(es) are you planning to model?

Originally Posted by the_frog

Sorry for the long text, including the shameless self-advertising

No need to say sorry. The time reading your messages is always well spent

[the_frog]

Originally Posted by gap

...or for a WWI mod, since she served in the US navy from 1918 to 1919 as escort/rescue tug and patrol vessel

... all the equipment and the deckhouse point at a pre-WWI vessel. For the WWII time, the deckhouse might be re-modelled.

Originally Posted by gap

As an amateur 3D modeller, I often spend more time looking for pictures and construction plans or (when I don't find them) trying to figure out shapes and proportions, than in actual modelling lol.

Correct.

Originally Posted by gap

... I must admit that I have only downloaded those models ans added them to my personal collection without having a closer look to them in a 3D editor.

... another 3D model collector. I am not the only one ...

Originally Posted by gap

... so the bent/deformed elements could actually be part of damage models

Yes, that's likely the cause. Many of the smaller guns seem to have of parts of the respective damage models.

Originally Posted by gap

Looks promising. What sub-class(es) are you planning to model?

The model is based on plans of Vidette and Vega as in 1918, with the 1920/30 changes to the bridge. So, it's the Admiralty V class in the fleet destroyer version (after the 1920/30s changes, the W class was almost identical). The model may also represent the 'modified' W class with the original boiler and funnel arrangement. It does neither respresent any of the Thornycroft specials nor the modified W class with reversed boiler layout.
The model is intended to replace the SH3 model. Let's sse, I probably will prepare WAIR and Long Range Excorts versions. The WAIRs I like best of all V&Ws .

Originally Posted by the_frog

@kendras: The HMS Warspite has models of the 45ft motor pinnace and the 45ft fast motorboat. You may consider to use them for the KGV

The 45ft fast boats don't seem to be accurate. Here a comparison between SH5 KGV + WoW fast boats, and a very detailed 3D model :

[the_frog]

Originally Posted by Kendras

The 45ft fast boats don't seem to be accurate. Here a comparison between SH5 KGV + WoW fast boats, and a very detailed 3D model :

The model of the 45ft fast motorboat is prefectly correct; the one on the right picture is a 45ft motor/diesel picket boat
Those picket boats were often used on modern British capital ships as Admiral's barge. Usually, only one was carried, along two 45ft fast motorboats. Many model plans on the market do not include the 45ft fast motorboat but only the 45ft motor picket boat.


Edit: The 45ft fast motor boat and picket boat shared the same hull. So, creating a model of the picket boat based on the motorboat model is possible ;-)