LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod - Page 63

Shadowmind · 06-27-07, 09:35 PM

I haven't been able to find the Advanced Torpedo control mod merged with the v3.08 mod, so I attempted to merge the ATC and v3.08 torpedo doctrines together. I've done some initially testing and it looks good. I made one change from the stock ATC. When the preenable button is clicked for the fourth time I send the torpedo to the floor depth instead of the launch depth. I wanted a way to launch torpedos deep and then pop them up to attack surface ships.

Another nice change would be the ability to increase the torpedo's speed to max speed without making it go active. If only we had a few more buttons. :hmm:

Luftwold/Amizaur, are either of you interested in this? Is anyone?

LuftWolf · 07-02-07, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmind

I haven't been able to find the Advanced Torpedo control mod merged with the v3.08 mod, so I attempted to merge the ATC and v3.08 torpedo doctrines together. I've done some initially testing and it looks good. I made one change from the stock ATC. When the preenable button is clicked for the fourth time I send the torpedo to the floor depth instead of the launch depth. I wanted a way to launch torpedos deep and then pop them up to attack surface ships.

Another nice change would be the ability to increase the torpedo's speed to max speed without making it go active. If only we had a few more buttons. :hmm:

Luftwold/Amizaur, are either of you interested in this? Is anyone?

Hi!

Well, doing the complete ATC and weapon physics mods are the ultimate project for me, since I have asked another SubSim member to do the database expansion and SCXIIc unit imports. So, my project is currently on hold until this person finishes that project, since the DW structure dictates that only one project can be done at any time, unless someone wants to do their project twice.

Basically, the project involves duplicating all the playable weapons so they have non-playable counterparts, then reconstructing all the torpedo doctrines, creating mulitple doctrines for each playable weapon, some of the non-playable weapons, and all of the non-playable torpedo types. I have a reasonably ambitious plan for expanding the AI's use of torpedoes by allowing them to selectively fire passive weapons and weapons at speeds lower than their max speeds, but that's a finishing touch.

At this time, I'm not in a position to add the ATC to the 3.08 database, so if anyone out their wants to work on it on their own and pass the files around, I actively encourage you to do so, however, the number things in the air at any given time necessitate signifcant testing for most changes so I think it'd be best to think of it as an ongoing project.

Also, some of the weapon doctrines need a bit of work, although they all were working as advertised in the old ATC test for DW 1.03, at least as far as I could tell with the limited amount of testing I have done.

Let me know if you have any specific questions as you go along.

Cheers,
David

GrayOwl · 07-04-07, 04:43 PM

LW, you are informed on that what the passive mode works with bugs?

The passive torpedo do not lose contact - doctrine does not receive never command LOSTTRACK in a passive mode. More correctly to say - torpedo loses contact, but the doctrine does not receive LOSTTRACK message from the engine - because of it of a torpedo emerge on a surface and jumping as dolphin.

When such "surprises" - I become known for me become sad.

Also in an active mode, all time remains switched on the passive gauge.
For example when is started UGST in an active mode, if the purpose moves on the large speed and does a lot of noise, the detecting is real occurs by a passive sensor control, but not active!
Check up it debugger and you will see it.

Have it in a kind at designing new ATC.

Cheers!

LuftWolf · 07-05-07, 08:34 AM

Yes, all of these things I sadly found the hard way... these, plus about 10 more things that were unexpected, grew the size and complexity of the ATC doctrines quite a bit over what a simple engineering plan would have allowed for, simply accounting for the code that makes the weapons behave.

Cheers,
David

Fish · 07-05-07, 04:38 PM

David,
Can you figure out how many playables is the max for multiplayer, or can't you see that in the database?

LuftWolf · 07-05-07, 05:29 PM

That's not something I know... perhaps you could PM FryingTiger?

Cheers,
David

Will do.

GrayOwl · 07-05-07, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

That's not something I know... perhaps you could PM FryingTiger?

Cheers,
David

And where main associative game producer ?

Has run away?

GrayOwl · 07-05-07, 08:19 PM

Sonalysts Game Design Notes:
The passive sonar modeling in Sub Command was modified from 688I in an
effort to upgrade the sonar detection and classification performance. Sub
Command models the individual variables in the passive sonar equation:

Passive Sonar Signal Excess = Radiated Noise - Propagation Loss - Interfering Noise - Recognition Differential

1. Radiated Noise is the initial source level of the signal that emanates
from the contact. Broadband radiated noise varies with speed, narrowband
radiated noise does not.

2. Propagation Loss is the amount of loss the source signal sustains as it
travels from the contact to the sonar. Sub Command calculates proploss on
the fly, accounting for the loss due to interaction of the signal with the
acoustic boundaries (surface, bottom, and thermal layer) and the
attenuation loss of the signal as a function of range.

3. Interfering Noise is a combination of background noise (sea state, rain,
shipping density) and self noise (noise emanating from the detecting ship)
that is a function of own ship speed..

4. Recognition Differential is how well a sonar system can differentiate a
signal from the background noise. Sub Command models separate sonar
Recognition Differentials depending on sonar type and model.

All these variables are modeled in Sub Command to determine whether or not
to display a signal on a sonar screen, and how brightly to display the signal.

Broadband radiated noise varies by platform class, and is adjusted for
target speed. Broadband radiated noise values are modeled for
representative frequencies in the 2 kHZ - 4kHZ range. ???!!!

Narrowband radiated noise is modeled by assigning a narrowband profile to each
appropriate platform - 5 discrete narrowband frequencies. The 5 discrete narrowband
lines range in frequency from 50 Hz - to - 2 kHZ. All U.S. built ships
will have a 60 HZ lines because the U.S. uses 60 cycle electrical
equipment. The rest of the world uses 50 cycle electrical equipment, so
their narrowband profile will have a 50 HZ line.

Low frequency signals propagate through water with much less loss than do
high frequency signals. Therefore, in most cases the best/initial
detection sensor will be the detection of narrowband lines on the towed
array. The window at the top of the Narrowband Station allows the user to
perform a narrowband search. Even though a signal is not visually apparent
in the search window, moving the cursor through all the bearings may
discover a narrowband contact line that will then be displayed in the
middle window. This occurs because the sonar system is able to pull a
signal out of the noise. This is the systems Recognition
Differential. This is the reason why an auto Sonarman will report a
contact that the player does not visually see on the Broadband screen.

The lower frequency lines will be detected first as the range between ships
closes, and the brightness of the lines will depend on the calculated
Signal Excess. The Broadband Station will generally detect after detection
has been made on the Narrowband Station. Towed arrayed broadband will
detect first over the spherical and cylindrical arrays because of it's
lower frequency band and better recognition differential. However,
spherical and cylindrical array detections eliminate the problem with the
ambiguous towed array detection.

The environmental inputs for each mission have a major effect on the sonar
detection performance. The inputs are environmental profile type (surface
duct, convergence zone, bottom limited), bottom type (rock, mud, sand), and
sea state (0-5). The depth of the water is also a major factor. These
inputs are available in the mission editor.===========================

All that is written above - complete false.
That that is declared, obviously does not work. To deceive very bad...

Damn It and more damn it!

OneShot · 07-06-07, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray Owl

All that is written above - complete false. That that is declared, obviously does not work. To deceive very bad...

Might be because what you posted is for SC and not DW? Further on, Jamie has left SCS to work with another company ... that was a couple of months ago.

GrayOwl · 07-06-07, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneShot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray Owl

All that is written above - complete false. That that is declared, obviously does not work. To deceive very bad...

Might be because what you posted is for SC and not DW? Further on, Jamie has left SCS to work with another company ... that was a couple of months ago.

Since then nothing has changed - as in that game it did not work, so on former does not work and in DW.
The realization of Speed vs Noise, this one, and work of all acoustic model as a whole is another.

Bospor · 07-06-07, 06:34 PM

Just a quick question for you experts. I am very new to this game, so I am still learning the ropes... Downloaded this mod and very much liked the new models, improved torps and missiles behaviour. However, just two days ago I ran into a small problem (in my opinion). I was in Akula-I sneaking at 2 knots with towed sonar fully extended. At the same time 688I was fighting with another sub nearby. I could not detect him at all. I checked the Show truth part and here he was going at 11 knots 48 meters deep about 6.5 nm from me! From what I have read and heard about Akula, that sub should of picked up 688I going that fast that close to me. Is this mod a little bit anti-Russian or 688I is really that quiet?
Also I noticed that Akula's didn't get the new skin like Victor, Typhoon or Oscar. Still has that rediculous rusted piece of sh... look from vanilla game. I noticed that TLAM Strike has a cool looking model in his avatar (or whatever that is). Did I download just a part of the LA mod, not the full version?

To be · 07-06-07, 06:56 PM

What array were you looking on, and were you looking on the Narrowband or Broadband display?

Bospor · 07-06-07, 08:11 PM

Autocrew on sonar

Molon Labe · 07-06-07, 09:48 PM

LW/Ami doesn't include updated models for playables. That invovles complications that require a lot more labor.

It's pretty well established that sonar autocrew is not capable of anywhere near the performance of the sonar. It follows that it isn't fair to evaluate the capability of the sonar based on what the autocrew can do.

Bospor · 07-09-07, 02:44 PM

So, you guys play constantly staring at the sonar screen? I usually have auotocrew let me know when there is a contact. Than I go and check it out. Plus faint contacts are impossible to recognize on that Russian sonar. If it is a loud contact the spike is high and noticable, but faint contact look no different from the backround noise spikes. I think that auotocrew can see those little spikes much better than I can, unless I am doing something wrong...
Another strange thing I just noticed. I had made a small mission where I was in Akula and Victor 3 was an ally nearby. I witnessed a bizare behavior of Victor 3. She detected US FFG and sped up to 25 knots and got right behind the FFG, only about 0.5 nm behind. Then it would slow down and then accelarate again. It was doing it till the chopper dropped a tarpedo and sunk it. The damn thing wasn't attacking, just jerking off like that for good 7 nm! When I set up a mission, I gave orders to attack, not to track (or whatever she was trying to do). It was suppose to target another ship (target platform section), perhaps that was what screw it up. I have never seen this kind of behaviour in vanilla game. Was something changed in AI attacking behaviour in LA mod?

06-27-07, 09:35 PM	#931
Shadowmind Watch Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Frozen plans of ND Posts: 17 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	V3.08 mod and Advanced Torpedo controls I haven't been able to find the Advanced Torpedo control mod merged with the v3.08 mod, so I attempted to merge the ATC and v3.08 torpedo doctrines together. I've done some initially testing and it looks good. I made one change from the stock ATC. When the preenable button is clicked for the fourth time I send the torpedo to the floor depth instead of the launch depth. I wanted a way to launch torpedos deep and then pop them up to attack surface ships. Another nice change would be the ability to increase the torpedo's speed to max speed without making it go active. If only we had a few more buttons. :hmm: Luftwold/Amizaur, are either of you interested in this? Is anyone?

07-04-07, 04:43 PM	#933
GrayOwl Soundman Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Compartment № 5 /Silos/ Posts: 149 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	LW, you are informed on that what the passive mode works with bugs? The passive torpedo do not lose contact - doctrine does not receive never command LOSTTRACK in a passive mode. More correctly to say - torpedo loses contact, but the doctrine does not receive LOSTTRACK message from the engine - because of it of a torpedo emerge on a surface and jumping as dolphin. When such "surprises" - I become known for me become sad. Also in an active mode, all time remains switched on the passive gauge. For example when is started UGST in an active mode, if the purpose moves on the large speed and does a lot of noise, the detecting is real occurs by a passive sensor control, but not active! Check up it debugger and you will see it. Have it in a kind at designing new ATC. Cheers! __________________ -+= I the ocean hunter, and I am dangerous =+- * Kalashnikov - the best *

07-05-07, 08:34 AM	#934
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Yes, all of these things I sadly found the hard way... these, plus about 10 more things that were unexpected, grew the size and complexity of the ATC doctrines quite a bit over what a simple engineering plan would have allowed for, simply accounting for the code that makes the weapons behave. Cheers, David __________________ LW

07-05-07, 05:29 PM	#936
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	That's not something I know... perhaps you could PM FryingTiger? Cheers, David Will do. __________________ LW Last edited by Fish; 07-06-07 at 09:35 AM.

07-05-07, 08:19 PM	#938
GrayOwl Soundman Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Compartment № 5 /Silos/ Posts: 149 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Sonalysts Game Design Notes: The passive sonar modeling in Sub Command was modified from 688I in an effort to upgrade the sonar detection and classification performance. Sub Command models the individual variables in the passive sonar equation: Passive Sonar Signal Excess = Radiated Noise - Propagation Loss - Interfering Noise - Recognition Differential 1. Radiated Noise is the initial source level of the signal that emanates from the contact. Broadband radiated noise varies with speed, narrowband radiated noise does not. 2. Propagation Loss is the amount of loss the source signal sustains as it travels from the contact to the sonar. Sub Command calculates proploss on the fly, accounting for the loss due to interaction of the signal with the acoustic boundaries (surface, bottom, and thermal layer) and the attenuation loss of the signal as a function of range. 3. Interfering Noise is a combination of background noise (sea state, rain, shipping density) and self noise (noise emanating from the detecting ship) that is a function of own ship speed.. 4. Recognition Differential is how well a sonar system can differentiate a signal from the background noise. Sub Command models separate sonar Recognition Differentials depending on sonar type and model. All these variables are modeled in Sub Command to determine whether or not to display a signal on a sonar screen, and how brightly to display the signal. Broadband radiated noise varies by platform class, and is adjusted for target speed. Broadband radiated noise values are modeled for representative frequencies in the 2 kHZ - 4kHZ range. ???!!! Narrowband radiated noise is modeled by assigning a narrowband profile to each appropriate platform - 5 discrete narrowband frequencies. The 5 discrete narrowband lines range in frequency from 50 Hz - to - 2 kHZ. All U.S. built ships will have a 60 HZ lines because the U.S. uses 60 cycle electrical equipment. The rest of the world uses 50 cycle electrical equipment, so their narrowband profile will have a 50 HZ line. Low frequency signals propagate through water with much less loss than do high frequency signals. Therefore, in most cases the best/initial detection sensor will be the detection of narrowband lines on the towed array. The window at the top of the Narrowband Station allows the user to perform a narrowband search. Even though a signal is not visually apparent in the search window, moving the cursor through all the bearings may discover a narrowband contact line that will then be displayed in the middle window. This occurs because the sonar system is able to pull a signal out of the noise. This is the systems Recognition Differential. This is the reason why an auto Sonarman will report a contact that the player does not visually see on the Broadband screen. The lower frequency lines will be detected first as the range between ships closes, and the brightness of the lines will depend on the calculated Signal Excess. The Broadband Station will generally detect after detection has been made on the Narrowband Station. Towed arrayed broadband will detect first over the spherical and cylindrical arrays because of it's lower frequency band and better recognition differential. However, spherical and cylindrical array detections eliminate the problem with the ambiguous towed array detection. The environmental inputs for each mission have a major effect on the sonar detection performance. The inputs are environmental profile type (surface duct, convergence zone, bottom limited), bottom type (rock, mud, sand), and sea state (0-5). The depth of the water is also a major factor. These inputs are available in the mission editor.=========================== All that is written above - complete false. That that is declared, obviously does not work. To deceive very bad... Damn It and more damn it! __________________ -+= I the ocean hunter, and I am dangerous =+- * Kalashnikov - the best *

07-05-07, 04:38 PM	#935
Fish Eternal Patrol Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,923 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	David, Can you figure out how many playables is the max for multiplayer, or can't you see that in the database?

07-06-07, 06:34 PM	#941
Bospor Watch Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Just a quick question for you experts. I am very new to this game, so I am still learning the ropes... Downloaded this mod and very much liked the new models, improved torps and missiles behaviour. However, just two days ago I ran into a small problem (in my opinion). I was in Akula-I sneaking at 2 knots with towed sonar fully extended. At the same time 688I was fighting with another sub nearby. I could not detect him at all. I checked the Show truth part and here he was going at 11 knots 48 meters deep about 6.5 nm from me! From what I have read and heard about Akula, that sub should of picked up 688I going that fast that close to me. Is this mod a little bit anti-Russian or 688I is really that quiet? Also I noticed that Akula's didn't get the new skin like Victor, Typhoon or Oscar. Still has that rediculous rusted piece of sh... look from vanilla game. I noticed that TLAM Strike has a cool looking model in his avatar (or whatever that is). Did I download just a part of the LA mod, not the full version?

07-06-07, 06:56 PM	#942
To be Electrician's Mate Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 140 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	What array were you looking on, and were you looking on the Narrowband or Broadband display?

07-06-07, 08:11 PM	#943
Bospor Watch Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Autocrew on sonar

07-06-07, 09:48 PM	#944
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	LW/Ami doesn't include updated models for playables. That invovles complications that require a lot more labor. It's pretty well established that sonar autocrew is not capable of anywhere near the performance of the sonar. It follows that it isn't fair to evaluate the capability of the sonar based on what the autocrew can do. __________________

07-09-07, 02:44 PM	#945
Bospor Watch Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	So, you guys play constantly staring at the sonar screen? I usually have auotocrew let me know when there is a contact. Than I go and check it out. Plus faint contacts are impossible to recognize on that Russian sonar. If it is a loud contact the spike is high and noticable, but faint contact look no different from the backround noise spikes. I think that auotocrew can see those little spikes much better than I can, unless I am doing something wrong... Another strange thing I just noticed. I had made a small mission where I was in Akula and Victor 3 was an ally nearby. I witnessed a bizare behavior of Victor 3. She detected US FFG and sped up to 25 knots and got right behind the FFG, only about 0.5 nm behind. Then it would slow down and then accelarate again. It was doing it till the chopper dropped a tarpedo and sunk it. The damn thing wasn't attacking, just jerking off like that for good 7 nm! When I set up a mission, I gave orders to attack, not to track (or whatever she was trying to do). It was suppose to target another ship (target platform section), perhaps that was what screw it up. I have never seen this kind of behaviour in vanilla game. Was something changed in AI attacking behaviour in LA mod?