Argentine navy lost contact with sub [UPDATE: SUB FOUND]

[speed150mph]

Well looks like the Russians have finally joined the search. It would have been nice if they would have joined sooner :p

[aanker]

Thank you for the YouTube post speed150mph, his experienced analysis is fascinating.

[ACR]

speed150 mph :

you have valid points and like said all is speculation but if the second sound should be an emergency blow where is the sound when the hull crashes against into the seafloor?

a hull crashing against the seafloor should for sure be noisier than blowing the ballast or not ?

and like he explained in the video the first sound does not sound like a warhead going off but more like extreme forces building up and 4 seconds later a sudden explosive failure.

best regards

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by ACR

speed150 mph :

you have valid points and like said all is speculation but if the second sound should be an emergency blow where is the sound when the hull crashes against into the seafloor?

a hull crashing against the seafloor should for sure be noisier than blowing the ballast or not ?

and like he explained in the video the first sound does not sound like a warhead going off but more like extreme forces building up and 4 seconds later a sudden explosive failure.

best regards

i would think the sound of the emergency blow would be considerably louder than the impact with the sea floor.

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

i would think the sound of the emergency blow would be considerably louder than the impact with the sea floor.

Yup, specially if the bottom is mud or sand, not so much if it is rock!

[kilerkg]

Apparently the snorkel leaked water, causing a battery to short circuit. They reported the problem and were ordered back to base.

'They had to isolate the battery and continue to sail underwater toward Mar del Plata, using another battery.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-snorkel.html

[aanker]

Thanks. That info coincides with earlier reports. Those seas were so heavy when this happened and for days after, .... this whole event just snowballed into such a tragedy for those poor souls. Very sad.

[TomcatMVD]

Just saw a leaked document confirming it was found at 1050mts (like 3500ft). Take it with a big grain of salt although it looked legit. There's been a boatload of idiots inventing bullcrap reports, this one did get me to raise a brow though.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[vienna]

One report I read mentioned that, after the sub had reported and was ordered home, it apparently proceeded submerged on its course, an action which seems a bit odd and questionable...








<O>

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by vienna

One report I read mentioned that, after the sub had reported and was ordered home, it apparently proceeded submerged on its course, an action which seems a bit odd and questionable...

i think the decision had some to do with the sea state at the time. heavy seas were the norm that week. i think the rescue ships sometimes faced 18 foot swells or higher.

seems much for a 200 foot long submarine

[fitzcarraldo]

The ARA San Juan had been called back to port after the commander informed of a complication with one of the batteries. "Entry of seawater by ventilation system to battery tank No. 3 caused a short circuit and the beginning of a fire in the balcony of battery bars, bow batteries out of service, at the time of immersion, propelling with a split circuit. I will keep staff informed," Pedro Martín Fernández informed in a message via radio frequency.
ANALYSIS OF ACOUSTIC DETECTION OF THE
LOSS OF THE ARGENTINE SUBMARINE SAN JUAN
By Bruce Rule
An analytical review of all information released by the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization on the acoustic signal associated with the loss of the Argentina Submarine ARA SAN JUAN confirms the following:
That acoustic signal originated near 46-10S, 59-42W at 1358Z (GMT) on 15 November 2017. It was produced by the collapse (implosion) of the ARA SAN JUAN pressure-hull at a depth of 1275-feet. Sea pressure at the collapse depth was 570 PSI. The frequency of the collapse event signal (bubble-pulse) was about 4.4 Hz.
The energy released by the collapse was equal to the explosion of 12,500 pounds of TNT at the depth of 1275-feet. That energy was produced by the nearly instantaneous conversion of potential energy (sea-pressure) to kinetic energy, the motion of the intruding water-ram which entered the SAN JUAN pressure-hull at a speed of about 1800 mph.
The entire pressure-hull was completely destroyed (fragmented/compacted) in about 40 milliseconds (0.040s or 1/25th of a second), the duration of the compression phase of the collapse event which is half the minimum time required for cognitive recognition of an event.
Although the crew may have known collapse was imminent, they never knew it was occurring. They did not drown or experience pain. Death was instantaneous.
The SAN JUAN wreckage sank vertically at an estimated speed between 10 and 13 knots. Bottom impact would not have produced an acoustic event detectable at long range.
The open question is: why was no corrective action - such as blowing ballast - taken by the SAN JUAN crew before the submarine sank to collapse depth? According to Argentine Navy spokesman Gabriel Galeazzi, the Commanding Officer of the SAN JUAN reported a "failure" in the submarine's "battery system," The time of that report was 0730 on 15 November, assumed to have been GMT. Subsequently, the problem was reported to have been "fixed." The SAN JUAN intended to submerged and continued its transit north. The SAN JUAN pressure-hull collapsed at 1358 GMT on 15 November.
In the case of the loss of the US nuclear submarine SCORPION (SSN 589), hydrogen out-gassed by the main battery exploded at 18:20:44 GMT on 22 May 1968 incapacitating/killing the crew with an atmospheric over-pressure in the battery well estimated to have been 7-10 times the fatal value. The pressure-hull was not breached. This assessment was based on analysis of acoustic detections of the event and damage observed in pieces of the fragmented battery recovered from the wreckage at a depth of 11,100 feet by the US submersible TRIESTE, e.g., microscopic, spectrographic and x-ray diffraction analyses. (There was no flooding of the pressure-hull before the battery exploded.)
SCORPION lost power and sank slowly over nearly 22 minutes to collapse at a depth of 1530-feet at 18:42:34 GMT on 22 May 1968.
There is the possibility that a similar sequence of events occurred aboard the SAN JUAN. If the wreck is located and efforts are made to recover components, emphasis should be placed on the battery system.
The author of this assessment was the lead acoustic analyst at the US Office of Naval Intelligence for 42 years, analyzed acoustic detectors of the loss of the USS THRESHER (SSN 593) on 10 April 1963 and testified before that Court of Inquiry. The author expresses his appreciation to those who supported this assessment with research and calculations.

[August]

Rest in peace Sailors.

[Skybird]

Argentine shifts focus on a German company, Ferrostahl, which renewed the batteries. The contract with the Argentine defence ministry is under examination, since Ferrostahl was involved in bribery regarding deals with Greece and Portugal five years ago.

Whether or not Ferrostahl is responsible for an incorrect implementation of the works and so maybe helped the disastrous consequences to unfold, is unclear. Bribery is one thing - accidents or technical incompetence is another thing. Possible that Argentine is looking for a foreign strawman to distract from problems in its own military logistics and maintenance schemes - or that it takes aim at heads in the military who could be cut off in the wake of the disaster.

Without the loss of the San Juan, this examination now probably would have never taken place. Whether or not Ferrostahl had any responsibility in the process of technical events that led to the loss of the San Juan, obviously could only be determined if the wreck gets found and examined.

[TomcatMVD]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Argentine shifts focus on a German company, Ferrostahl, which renewed the batteries. The contract with the Argentine defence ministry is under examination, since Ferrostahl was involved in bribery regarding deals with Greece and Portugal five years ago.

Whether or not Ferrostahl is responsible for an incorrect implementation of the works and so maybe helped the disastrous consequences to unfold, is unclear. Bribery is one thing - accidents or technical incompetence is another thing. Possible that Argentine is looking for a foreign strawman to distract from problems in its own military logistics and maintenance schemes - or that it takes aim at heads in the military who could be cut off in the wake of the disaster.

Without the loss of the San Juan, this examination now probably would have never taken place. Whether or not Ferrostahl had any responsibility in the process of technical events that led to the loss of the San Juan, obviously could only be determined if the wreck gets found and examined.

There is not a lot "foreign" about this, Argentina recently changed administrations which involved a drastic change in direction, and the new government is very poised to unearth any and all nefarious dealings of the previous executive branch. A lot of fingers are already pointed at previous president Cristina Fernández de Kirchner and her associates. She, after all, made a big deal of the whole overhauling of these submarines with public speeches and fanfare.

[Falkirion]

Sounds like the Argentine govt are looking for a scapegoat to me.

Who handled the overhaul of the sub? Was it a foreign company or a local one?