UK Politics Thread

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

NOT FOR ME IT HAS NOT.


I woke up years ago long before Brexit became a fact.


STOP VOTING PEOPLE AND DO SOMETHING FAR MORE CONSTRUCTIVE.


The media tells us we the voter will punish all of them, how then most our sheep? Parliament knows it and they are laughing all the way to the next election.

[STEED]

Chuka Umunna has been named as the spokesman for The Independent Group of breakaway MPs.
The group does not have a formal leader, but the former Labour MP's role suggests he will play a major role as TIG tries to increase its profile.

https://news.sky.com/story/the-indep...f-mps-11651286


Another washout lot going no where fast.






AND NOW SOMETHING ELSE...

Fireworks inquiry to look at case for banning sales to public


The probe by a committee of MPs comes after almost 750,000 people signed a variety of petitions voicing concerns about fireworks.

https://news.sky.com/story/fireworks...ublic-11651321


Yes ban the sales to the general public, if you want to watch fireworks go to a proper display.

[Catfish]

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-br...-idUKKCN1QI4BR


seems they have all lost their marbles. Enjoy your brexit world

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by STEED

https://news.sky.com/story/the-indep...f-mps-11651286


Another washout lot going no where fast.

He was on This Week last night just after Question Time and he held his own whilst being interviewed but didn't stand out as anything special.

Originally Posted by Catfish

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-br...-idUKKCN1QI4BR


seems they have all lost their marbles. Enjoy your brexit world

Just been reading that over on the BBC website https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47414699

[Jimbuna]

Just came across this on a friends FB page so decided to do a little 'research'



Whilst I disagree fundementally with the part about saying we can never leave it does however leave some food for thought.

BREXIT could be delayed until 2021, with EU officials plotting to lock the UK in the European Union for a minimum of two more years. But is there a hidden reason behind the delay?https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ond-referendum

I'm not extolling the accuracy of the source but there are others out there that mirror the contents.

[Catfish]

Initial brexit will not be as bad as some want to make believe, but the future will be. Nobody wins with brexit.

"Talk of rotting food at Calais is hysterical: instead, no deal would see the EU calmly dismantle Britain’s industries over time"

"The problem with abandoning the rules of the international order is that you no longer enjoy their protection."

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ain-industries


"Presumably in a state of collective shock after nearly 52 percent of voters in the referendum chose to leave the EU, the parliament approved the government’s decision to start the withdrawal process without a plan for doing so. Leaving aside that the referendum campaign was so poisonous that many refrained from publicly stating their preferences, the vote was conducted with dubious criteria from a democratic point of view – excluding EU citizens living in the United Kingdom, going against the recommendation of the House of Lords to extend the franchise to 16 year-olds (whose future was at stake), and not allowing Britons that had been living abroad for over 15 years to vote."

http://www.gmfus.org/blog/2019/01/17...tish-democracy

[Jimbuna]

Can't say for sure how much bias the above contains but that could be said for any articles of course.

One point I'd pick up on is

Those same Brexiters who have marched from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm still bizarrely believe that the UK could pocket the £39bn divorce bill while pursuing trade deals around the world. Yet the EU would, calmly and rationally, place tariffs on UK trade until it had collected what it is owed

I'm sure any tariffs impost would bring about a reciprocal gesture and the UK importing more than it exports would surely bring about a positive balance YES?

[Catfish]

^ from the first link's article:

" [...] riposte is that the Europeans have as much to lose since the UK is an important export market and we run a large trade deficit with the single market. But one of the legacies of Thatcher’s deindustrialisation is that the UK lacks the industrial base to switch from foreign to domestic production. It simply no longer exists, thanks to the 1980s shock therapy of the very same disaster capitalists that now champion no-deal."

"... the damage to trade with the single market could not be replaced by new trade deals – in addition to the EU27, the UK has the benefits of trade deals with 40 other countries through the EU, all of which would evaporate overnight in no deal. That requires 67 deals to be signed just to stand still."

Europe will export less to the UK, and this less will be more expensive in the UK. Win?

[Jimbuna]

Win or lose I'm not able to say but does it matter?

I'm becoming firmer in my belief as each day passes that Brexit will not happen.

[Skybird]

You are probably right there, Jim. which only means the betrayal of the referendum goes according to original plan. The political caste on both sides of the channel never had any intention to seriously allow it happening. Frustrate everybody so intensely and so long until eveybody just says that it should be cancelled due to frustration.



Then blow it off, shrug the shoulders and say "We really tried to honour the referendum, we really trie dhard, but it oculd not be done - you cannot hold us responsible for it, we really tried hard."


Stealing the referendum and finding a way to get away with it - thats what it is about.


Gotta love the rotten ways of politics.



People do not want freedom. With freedom they do not know anything to do. People want to get led, and kept in collective custody, and bear no responsibility for themselves, and wallow in the glory of their glorious owner, thunking that makes themselves glorious as well.


Cattle in a rail waggon.


And if somebody tells them about freedom, the owners must not care, for the owned will turn against the renegate all by themselves.

[Catfish]

^ Still hysterical with the conspiracy idea? It's irrational and irresponsible of Brexiters to mislead voters into thinking that the EU controls the UK when it is written in the treaties that the EU must respect its members. And it does. Yes. indeed.
Things like border control have been managed differently already by the UK, but also the latter opted out from border checks . Why do you always forget that?

You could easily have taken back control of our borders already under
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ...77:0123:en:PDF
but you chose not to.
" ... which allows EU member states to repatriate EU nationals after three months if they have not found a job or do not have the means to support themselves. In this month’s debate on the House of Lords EU subcommittee report on EU migration, I challenged the government on why we were not availing ourselves of this directive – and I got no response."


Generally,
"A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.’"
The key words here are ‘decides’ and ‘intention’. Despite the decision in the non-binding referendum, it did not mean the UK would Brexit that day as many were led to believe.

Instead there have been two years, and the UK trade ministry has not made one post-brexit deal with all the EU nations it now trades with (27), and not one deal with the other 67 nations the UK up to now traded with automatically because of being a EU member. And of course, this is all the EU's fault. pffft.


@Jim
What i meant is that Europe and the UK loses. The only winners will be Russia and China, and maybe the US.

[Georg Lassen]

Originally Posted by Skybird

You are probably right there, Jim. which only means the betrayal of the referendum goes according to original plan. The political caste on both sides of the channel never had any intention to seriously allow it happening. Frustrate everybody so intensely and so long until eveybody just says that it should be cancelled due to frustration.



Then blow it off, shrug the shoulders and say "We really tried to honour the referendum, we really trie dhard, but it oculd not be done - you cannot hold us responsible for it, we really tried hard."


Stealing the referendum and finding a way to get away with it - thats what it is about.


Gotta love the rotten ways of politics.



People do not want freedom. With freedom they do not know anything to do. People want to get led, and kept in collective custody, and bear no responsibility for themselves, and wallow in the glory of their glorious owner, thunking that makes themselves glorious as well.


Cattle in a rail waggon.


And if somebody tells them about freedom, the owners must not care, for the owned will turn against the renegate all by themselves.

Enough people will see trough this so it will cause a political crisis in Britain.




This would be the place for the Queen to come out and order the referendum to be respected.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Georg Lassen

Enough people will see trough this so it will cause a political crisis in Britain.
This would be the place for the Queen to come out and order the referendum to be respected.

It will deepen the trenche sin britain if they hold another referendum, I agree. However, that rotten potlciians get away with their mafiosi games and cheats and tricks is the common rule all over the West, and the voting and tax-paying cattle even legitimises them to do so time and again.



As far as the Queen is concerned, the time sof this institution ruling the potlics of a country are over. She has hinted at the drama with the faintesdt of words and it was already seen as a sensation, the Prtince recently made a comment or two in a speech that could be seen as an indirect referal to the drama and again ti was seen as the maximum of what can be expected form the royals. And I think more there will not be. They are in the feel-well-business and guard a museum, its a great show that they stage, I somewhat like it - but the powers lies elsewhere these days.

[Georg Lassen]

Originally Posted by Skybird

As far as the Queen is concerned, the time sof this institution ruling the potlics of a country are over. She has hinted at the drama with the faintesdt of words and it was already seen as a sensation, the Prtince recently made a comment or two in a speech that could be seen as an indirect referal to the drama and again ti was seen as the maximum of what can be expected form the royals. And I think more there will not be. They are in the feel-well-business and guard a museum, its a great show that they stage, I somewhat like it - but the powers lies elsewhere these days.

She has real powers and she has the military behind her.

Political Powers

The Queen’s political powers nowadays are largely ceremonial, though some are actively used by The Queen such as at General Elections or are available in times of crisis and some are used by Ministers for expediency when needed.

• Summoning/Proroguing Parliament – The Queen has the power to prorogue (suspend) and to summon (call back) Parliament – prorogation typically happens at the end of a parliamentary session, and the summoning occurs shortly after, when The Queen attends the State Opening of Parliament.
• Royal Assent – It is The Queen’s right and responsibility to grant assent to bills from Parliament, signing them into law. Whilst, in theory, she could decide to refuse assent, the last Monarch to do this was Queen Anne in 1708.
• Secondary Legislation – The Queen can create Orders-in-Council and Letters Patent, that regulate parts to do with the Crown, such as precedence, titles. Orders in Council are often used by Ministers nowadays to bring Acts of Parliament into law.
• Appoint/Remove Ministers – Her Majesty also has the power to appoint and remove Ministers of the Crown.
• Appointing the Prime Minister – The Queen is responsible for appointing the Prime Minister after a general election or a resignation, in a General Election The Queen will appoint the candidate who is likely to have the most support of the House of Commons. In the event of a resignation, The Queen listens to advice on who should be appointed as their successor.
• Declaration of War – The Sovereign retains the power to declare war against other nations, though in practice this is done by the Prime Minister and Parliament of the day.
• Freedom From Prosecution – Under British law, The Queen is above the law and cannot be prosecuted – she is also free from civil action.

Judicial Powers

The Queen’s judicial powers are now very minimal, and there is only really one which is used on a regular basis, with others having been delegated to judges and parliament through time.

• Royal Pardon – The Royal Pardon was originally used to retract death sentences against those wrongly convicted. It is now used to correct errors in sentencing and was recently used to give a posthumous pardon to WW2 codebreaker, Alan Turing.

Armed Forces

The Queen’s powers in the Armed Forces are usually used on the advice of Generals and Parliament though some functions are retained by The Queen herself nowadays.

• Commander-in-Chief – The Queen is commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces and all members swear an oath of allegiance to The Queen when they join; they are Her Majesty’s Armed Forces.
• Commissioning of Officers – The Queen’s powers include the commissioning of officers into the Armed Forces and also removing commissions (when members of the Armed Forces salute and officers, they are saluting The Queen’s commission).
• Disposition of the Forces – The organisation and disposition of the Armed Forces are part of the Royal Prerogative; the crown technically controls how the Armed Forces are used.

Honours

One of the main prerogative powers that are still used personally by The Queen these days is the power to grant honours. As all honours derive from the Crown, The Queen has the final say on knighthoods, peerages and the like.

• Creation of Peerages – The Queen may create a peerage for any person – whether a life peerage or hereditary one, though hereditary peerages haven’t been issued for decades outside of the Royal Family.
• Font of Honour – It is The Queen’s prerogative power to create orders of knighthood and to grant any citizen honours. From the Royal Victorian Order to the Order of the Garter.

Miscellaneous Powers

Other powers Her Majesty holds include:

• Control of Passports – The issuing and withdrawal of passports are within the Royal Prerogative – this is often used by ministers on behalf of The Queen. All British passports are issued in The Queen’s name.
• Requisitioning of Ships – This power allows a ship to be commandeered in Her Majesty’s name for service to the realm. This power was used on the QE2 to take troops to the Falklands after the Argentine invasion in 1982.

http://royalcentral.co.uk/blogs/insi...s-powers-22069

[STEED]

The sad fact is a lot of people in the UK......


Oh I give up what is the point.



GAME OVER.