Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE - Page 118

urfisch · 07-02-11, 03:12 PM

found nothing so far. uboats still not active >2-3km

no diving, etc...

quite disappointing. i guess, by just changing the definitions and apply different patterns of ai to this unit, we do not reach our aim. there must be something which controls the units and its ai scripts and does not accept the uboat as a new unit, with full controls. the behavior of the unit seems limited by something.

i would suggest, we create a new ai uboat by cloning a destroyers unit, giving it another 3d modell and additional behavior. and there must also be the ability to let the boat dive. cause, giving the command in your boat to let it dive is nothing else, than triggering the command "dive" to the game. and the code lets the boat dive. so there must be the chance, to let the units dive. no matter, which one. theoretically a merchant also could be forced to dive....without destroying it

or we dig through the codes, which are responsable for the ai units and search for the "mastercontroller" of these units.

what do you think?

h.sie · 07-02-11, 03:57 PM

@urfish: Thanks for trying. Fortunately, we (or more exacty: SquareSteelBar) were able to enlarge the operation radius of the sub to about 8km. But it is not 100% sure if it works as intended. I'm a little bit unsure if I should have informed you earlier about that, but I didn't know who is currently working and who not, and nothing is sure so far.

07-02-11, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skwasjer

And that means a lot coming from you. Thank you Anvart!

I'll second what Anvart and Ducimus posted and add another thought.
If S3D is such a waste?
Why is he now releaseing an SDL editor he wrote?
Doesn't that make all his statements against S3D kind of self-serving?

Anvart · 07-02-11, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

I'll second what Anvart and Ducimus posted and add another thought.
If S3D is such a waste?
Why is he now releaseing an SDL editor he wrote?
Doesn't that make all his statements against S3D kind of self-serving?

... and... If you carefully read his posts on SH5 forum, can say with certainty that he is actively using S3D in their work...

h.sie · 07-03-11, 05:44 AM

Wolfpacks - what has been done so far:

SqareSteelBar managed to enlarge the operation radius (fire range) of the Sergbutos AI-Subs from 2-3km to 7-8km. In my tests, they now shoot over long ranges, before they are detected by the escorts. This will reduce the amount of Subs required to intercept a convoy. They are mainly needed to deviate the escorts, so that the player maybe finds an opportunity to attack.

LGN1 wrote the pseudo-code for a very basic AI of the BDU.

h.sie now can access via Assembler code the current position of the player sub as well as the values of the TDC dials which can be used for a contact report to tell the BDU about the couse and the speed of the convoy.

Still not very optimistic that we will have wolfpacks soon, but little progress we made.

Anvart · 07-03-11, 06:49 AM

Hy, guys, masters of R/E.
What can you say about Immunity Debugger 1.83 (like OllyDbg, but on python)? With the rapid examination of the program I liked...

urfisch · 07-03-11, 06:53 AM

anyone discovered, what script is used to let the boats dive? i mean the general prcedure of a diving unit ingame...

h.sie · 07-03-11, 06:58 AM

@Anvart: I have never heard about Immunity Debugger!

@urfisch: AFAIK in sh3 there are no AI scripts as in sh5, all AI behaviour is hardcoded. If there were scripts, these could easily be understood and modified.

Anvart · 07-03-11, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h.sie

@Anvart: I have never heard about Immunity Debugger!
...

http://www.immunityinc.com/products-immdbg.shtml

simple registering... and enjoy.

Hitman · 07-03-11, 08:12 AM

Quote:

... nothing strange because, in spite of all Eye-candy's tricks, Unit's state remains "Is Surfaced"... and fake-AISub of Sergei Butorin has the same problem, visually fake-AISub is submerged, in fact UBoatState (correctly ShipState) IsSurfaced...
... and if sergbuto's fake-AISub will be submerged to a depth greater than the parameter unit_Submarine --> unit_Ship --> obj_Hydro --> Surfaced --> draught = 12 m and --> Submerged --> draught = 13 m... submarine will be passive as a floating object... i think.

Again I'd like to stress on studying what is different in multiplayer and trying to make the AI believe that the AI uboat is in fact a human uboat

We need both the uboat to behave like a uboat -which is more or less possible-but mainly the AI to treat it as such.

Anvart · 07-03-11, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

Again I'd like to stress on studying what is different in multiplayer and trying to make the AI believe that the AI uboat is in fact a human uboat

We need both the uboat to behave like a uboat -which is more or less possible-but mainly the AI to treat it as such.

For understanding... it's playable UBoat - part of the actions (commands) on certain states and events must make the player.
For this part AI code is absent...

h.sie · 07-03-11, 08:47 AM

@Hitman: I totally agree with you, but until now I had no idea where to start to realise that approach. the behaviour of the escorts on different types of enemy is somewehere coded in the AI, but I really have no idea so far how to reengineer that. I don't even know exactly where the AI is coded. Thus, I tend to stick on the most simple solution, but if during my/our work here we get new kowledge and facts, we can enhance the behaviour of the subs.

@Anvart: Thanks for the link.

Hitman · 07-03-11, 09:36 AM

I was thinking that most AI sensors can't actually detect anything under zero (water level) as defined in the sensors file, f.e. visual or radar sensor can't see objects in negative values, etc, whereas hydrophones and ASDIC actually do the opposite, i.e. they can't detect anything that is completely out of the water (Like an airplane).

We also know positively that the AI only uses one sensor at a time, the one which has the best contact with the object, so tricking the AI into believing it is pursuing a submarine could be done with that, something like restricting the classes it can identify.

h.sie · 07-03-11, 10:00 AM

@Hitman: If I set the height (depth) for an AI-Sub to < 0, then it does not use its virtual torpedoes.....(SSB, LGN1: can you confirm this, or am I wrong).

If I'm wrong, we could set the depth to < 0, but I fear it won't work.

Anvart · 07-03-11, 01:50 PM

I doubt that it will help, but, IIRC, in sh3.exe there were strings: AI_SM_Actions.h and AI_SM_Actions.cpp... as i think AI State Machine...

07-02-11, 03:12 PM	#1756
urfisch Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Deep down in Germany Posts: 1,969 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	found nothing so far. uboats still not active >2-3km no diving, etc... quite disappointing. i guess, by just changing the definitions and apply different patterns of ai to this unit, we do not reach our aim. there must be something which controls the units and its ai scripts and does not accept the uboat as a new unit, with full controls. the behavior of the unit seems limited by something. i would suggest, we create a new ai uboat by cloning a destroyers unit, giving it another 3d modell and additional behavior. and there must also be the ability to let the boat dive. cause, giving the command in your boat to let it dive is nothing else, than triggering the command "dive" to the game. and the code lets the boat dive. so there must be the chance, to let the units dive. no matter, which one. theoretically a merchant also could be forced to dive....without destroying it or we dig through the codes, which are responsable for the ai units and search for the "mastercontroller" of these units. what do you think? __________________

07-02-11, 03:57 PM	#1757
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	@urfish: Thanks for trying. Fortunately, we (or more exacty: SquareSteelBar) were able to enlarge the operation radius of the sub to about 8km. But it is not 100% sure if it works as intended. I'm a little bit unsure if I should have informed you earlier about that, but I didn't know who is currently working and who not, and nothing is sure so far. __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

07-03-11, 05:44 AM	#1760
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	Wolfpacks - what has been done so far: SqareSteelBar managed to enlarge the operation radius (fire range) of the Sergbutos AI-Subs from 2-3km to 7-8km. In my tests, they now shoot over long ranges, before they are detected by the escorts. This will reduce the amount of Subs required to intercept a convoy. They are mainly needed to deviate the escorts, so that the player maybe finds an opportunity to attack. LGN1 wrote the pseudo-code for a very basic AI of the BDU. h.sie now can access via Assembler code the current position of the player sub as well as the values of the TDC dials which can be used for a contact report to tell the BDU about the couse and the speed of the convoy. Still not very optimistic that we will have wolfpacks soon, but little progress we made. __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

07-03-11, 06:49 AM	#1761
Anvart Admiral Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Russia ® Posts: 2,492 Downloads: 122 Uploads: 1	Hy, guys, masters of R/E. What can you say about Immunity Debugger 1.83 (like OllyDbg, but on python)? With the rapid examination of the program I liked... __________________ Alex ® Moses said: "Don't create yourself an idol"...

07-03-11, 06:53 AM	#1762
urfisch Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Deep down in Germany Posts: 1,969 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	anyone discovered, what script is used to let the boats dive? i mean the general prcedure of a diving unit ingame... __________________

07-03-11, 06:58 AM	#1763
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	@Anvart: I have never heard about Immunity Debugger! @urfisch: AFAIK in sh3 there are no AI scripts as in sh5, all AI behaviour is hardcoded. If there were scripts, these could easily be understood and modified. __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

07-03-11, 08:47 AM	#1767
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	@Hitman: I totally agree with you, but until now I had no idea where to start to realise that approach. the behaviour of the escorts on different types of enemy is somewehere coded in the AI, but I really have no idea so far how to reengineer that. I don't even know exactly where the AI is coded. Thus, I tend to stick on the most simple solution, but if during my/our work here we get new kowledge and facts, we can enhance the behaviour of the subs. @Anvart: Thanks for the link. __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

07-03-11, 09:36 AM	#1768
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,099 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	I was thinking that most AI sensors can't actually detect anything under zero (water level) as defined in the sensors file, f.e. visual or radar sensor can't see objects in negative values, etc, whereas hydrophones and ASDIC actually do the opposite, i.e. they can't detect anything that is completely out of the water (Like an airplane). We also know positively that the AI only uses one sensor at a time, the one which has the best contact with the object, so tricking the AI into believing it is pursuing a submarine could be done with that, something like restricting the classes it can identify. __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

07-03-11, 10:00 AM	#1769
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	@Hitman: If I set the height (depth) for an AI-Sub to < 0, then it does not use its virtual torpedoes.....(SSB, LGN1: can you confirm this, or am I wrong). If I'm wrong, we could set the depth to < 0, but I fear it won't work. __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

07-03-11, 01:50 PM	#1770
Anvart Admiral Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Russia ® Posts: 2,492 Downloads: 122 Uploads: 1	I doubt that it will help, but, IIRC, in sh3.exe there were strings: AI_SM_Actions.h and AI_SM_Actions.cpp... as i think AI State Machine... __________________ Alex ® Moses said: "Don't create yourself an idol"...