Going deep vs. slugging it out on the surface

[merc4ulfate]

I love going deep




It is so much easier to hide from those who want to pound you ...

With Depth Charges.

[Werewolf13]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

One of the places where the game fails is in the sub vs destroyer gun battle. In real life a destroyer is designed to stay afloat, and he has several guns roughly the equal of yours, plus fairly sophisticated fire-control that allows him to fire all of his guns to a single solution. The submarine is designed to sink, and has no fire-control system at all beyond an iron sight on the gun. If he manages to put one hole in your pressure hull you have lost the only advantage you have, and are now a fairly slow torpedo boat deep in enemy territory. Winning a gun duel with a destroyer, let alone two or more, is about as unrealistic as you can get.

^^^^^^^
The ABOVE X 1000

I imagine that there must have been at least one US Sub in the Pacific WWII that took on a Japanese DD in a gun duel. Can't recall ever reading about one though. Anyone know of a sub/DD surface duel in the Pacific?

Personally when DD's are in the area avoiding them is job one. Treat them as if they were powerful - angry - viscious sheep dogs and you'll live longer. You are a fox not a wolf and your job is to take out the sheep not fight with the sheep dogs 'cuz they'll rip you to shreds if you try.

Then again SH-IV is just a game and sometimes taking on the sheep dogs as a fox and winning (or just surviving) can be fun.

[Sniper297]

I have my game tweaked for stronger sub hulls with more hit points to get rid of that silly "BANG BANG BANG BANG YOU'RE DEAD!" nonsense. Also hacked some other file for indestructible engines, prop shafts, periscopes, and especially rudder - how many times have we taken a minor hit, escaped the escorts, then discovered we can no longer steer because the rudder is gone? Pointless to continue if you can't go back to base.

However, it don't make me SuperSub - I sometimes get a wild hair and go blasting away with the deck gun in the middle of a convoy trying to get the escorts to hit the merchies while shooting at me, I get hit a few times and it gets my Irish up so I'm gonna slug it out with three or four of them whatever the cost. Sometimes I win, but when I cool down and look at what's left of my sub I wonder what I actually won?

Wanna use the deck guns the best way is to sink the escorts and whatever armed merchants there are with torpedoes from underwater, THEN surface and blast away at the sheep.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Werewolf13

I imagine that there must have been at least one US Sub in the Pacific WWII that took on a Japanese DD in a gun duel. Can't recall ever reading about one though. Anyone know of a sub/DD surface duel in the Pacific?

I recall reading about one where a USN sub made a battle surface against a DD. They had thought it was a merchant, but it turned out to be a DD warship or similar. They were destroyed. At least one of the crew survived in captivity, so we found out what happened. I think this was in Silent Victory.

Of course, there were at least a couple subs that were sunk after being forced to the surface. The only cases I've read about where a sub prevailed in a surface duel, were against small, poorly armed patrol boats.

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by TorpX

Of course, there were at least a couple subs that were sunk after being forced to the surface. The only cases I've read about where a sub prevailed in a surface duel, were against small, poorly armed patrol boats.

Probably the most famous example in the war, Atlantic or Pacific, was the October 30th 1944 battle between the USS Salmon and two circling Japanese Kaikoban escort vessels armed with 4.7 inch guns. Forced to surface after a depth charging, and fired on from opposite directions, Salmon managed to charge and overwhelm one of them with gunfire at close range and then make a break for it. Happily for her, the Japanese thought there were other US subs submerged in the area and angling for an attack. (Salmon had sent out a radio call in plain English to US subs in the area for assistance.) They began pinging and broke off the engagement when the Salmon entered a rain squall.

[Armistead]

An old report of me fighting two escorts...

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=195717&page=2

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Dread Knot

Probably the most famous example in the war, Atlantic or Pacific, was the October 30th 1944 battle between the USS Salmon and two circling Japanese Kaikoban escort vessels armed with 4.7 inch guns. Forced to surface after a depth charging, and fired on from opposite directions, Salmon managed to charge and overwhelm one of them with gunfire at close range and then make a break for it.

I guess I hadn't read about that one. Did the one kaikoban sink?



The ones I was thinking about didn't end well.

Argonaut sunk by IJN warships with no survivors.

Sculpin with J.Cromwell scuttled after being shelled.



I also remember one USN sub making a planned battle surface where they engaged some kind of gunboat a long range. They happened to hit one of the exposed depth charges, and the thing went up like a powder keg.



AFAIK, the KM had no such victories against DD's or comparable vessels.

[Snarf]

this is from the Wikipedia article on Salmon...

"Escorts CD-22 (the killer of USS Harder) and CD-33 (who would later help sink the USS Trigger on 28 March 1945) saw her surface and began to close. Salmon turned away to give her crew a few precious minutes to correct a bad list and to repair some of the damage. The vessels began to close, but Salmon showed an aggressive stance, turned on the attackers and passing within 50 yards down the side of CD-22, raked her with 20 mm gunfire and her deck gun. CD-22 suffered 4 killed and 24 wounded and was unable to reply because of the closeness of Salmon and her higher freeboard. Salmon began sending out plain language directions for all other subs in the vicinity to attack, giving the position of the action. This probably further discouraged the enemy who, fearing other submarines in the area, began milling around pinging on sound gear. Salmon took advantage of a rain squall and slipped away."

[TorpX]

That's not too different from what happened to the Tambor. During a night surface approach, an escort charged and attempted to ram. The man on the 20mm put a string of shells into the bridge, which caused the enemy ship to loose control and veer off. By the time it recovered, they had broken contact.

[Admiral8Q]

I remember back in the day, skipping class to go to the library, I read some submarine WW2 books and I remember a sub dueling it out with a DD. I'd have to find the book again.