[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[max-peck]

Originally Posted by XTBilly

Max, I think I've got it now. Cheers mate!

Now that I'm really ready to test the ships, I'll report hopefully tonight, no later than tomorrow.

Really looking forward to it

This reminds me of the heady days of Werner Sobes Natural Sinking Mechanics
I have just googled his original release thread.
Good God - was that really 9 years ago?!

I remember when he was developing that with every new release I would go to a single mission with loads of stationary ships, and spend hour after hour just watching ships sink, in many different ways

I think we both have a ship sinking fetish

looking forward to your results.
And if you need a tester to help you blow stuff up, I am first in line, just let me know

If you need any more help, please let me know mate

[XTBilly]

Originally Posted by max-peck

Really looking forward to it

This reminds me of the heady days of Werner Sobes Natural Sinking Mechanics
I have just googled his original release thread.
Good God - was that really 9 years ago?!

I remember when he was developing that with every new release I would go to a single mission with loads of stationary ships, and spend hour after hour just watching ships sink, in many different ways

I think we both have a ship sinking fetish

looking forward to your results.
And if you need a tester to help you blow stuff up, I am first in line, just let me know

If you need any more help, please let me know mate

Thank you for your offer and nice words Max.

My job right now is to test all the ships and identify the faulty ones for the team to decide what are we going to do about them. Since deleting them is the last option, that nobody wants, maybe you, with your great texturing skills can help save them.

Werner Sobe's diamond mod has no equal in SH4. I'm not trying to replicate his work. To be really honest, I tried this first, but the way ship compartments are implemented into the ships themselves, requires modding skills that I have in my dreams only. In simple words, it all sounds Greek to me!

I'm using a different approach, working with the default ship compartments, but heavily modding other sectors of the ships. The results are not bad at all, but I'm a little behind here. My work so far was made using the v1.3 ships. Implementing the v2.0 ships requires me to repeat the modding process. And the whole testing of course. That will take some time.

When I'll be satisfied with the results, I'll release a Beta for team testing and rig for depth charging.

I love sinking ships. I'm really having fun making this, despite the constant .

Cheers,
Billy.

[max-peck]

Just had another thought Billy

Will your sinking mechanics be different if a ship is moving?

eg. a stationary ship will sink in one way, but a ship moving forward will sink differently?

Will the forward motion of the ship push it under??

If you need any more test missions where the ships are moving please let me know. I will happily make them for you

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by XTBilly

My work so far was made using the v1.3 ships. Implementing the v2.0 ships requires me to repeat the modding process. And the whole testing of course. That will take some time.

Speaking of testing......make sure you have the .05Alpha "Activated" into the stock game files before going to the Mission Editor to make new test missions. Your old missions (even with ships that are the same) will not work as intended without making a new test with the mod added. In my optical test missions, I had to "change out" my Porpoise sub with a new one, just to get the game to not CTD when I wanted to dive. Once I replaced the old FOTRS v1.3 Porpoise with the one from the .05Alpha (and the other ships as well) I was good.

AND, this could be a warning about making any mission for future use. Using the modded ships from whatever source we are using (meaning the mods we have "Activated") SHOULD produce a good mission in-game. Change the mod list, all bets are off when it comes to having the same mission work as expected. As an example, I always wondered about the stock "Submarine School" missions. Some of the content within them seemed to not work as expected when you played them. I forget what it was, but there seemed to be differences with how things worked (or didn't work) when playing them, compared to playing a Campaign game. It seemed the Sub School was made at a different time other than making it with the finished product.

It just might be good to wait on even my additions before making a test mission......my changes might make a difference too.

[max-peck]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

One note on that......FOTRS has Star Shells listed in some of its Deck Gun Ammunition for the American side. The only thing wrong with that is there's no Star Shell showing when at the Deck Gun screen. It just has the three HE, AP, and AA Shells showing. What do you guys want to do, have Star Shells added to the guns (where FOTRS added them), or just forget them entirely? Right now their out of sight.....out of mind.

I know I am very late giving my opinion about this, sorry.
But I agree with the other fellas
I have just finished reading Silent Victory, which is, I am told, is the definitive account of the US Submarine Pacific War
Not once does it write about US Subs firing star shells

Get rid of the things

[max-peck]

Originally Posted by Jeffg

I want to tell you guys that you are doing great work and can not wait for the release. Keep it up!

JeffG

Cheers mate

Originally Posted by max-peck

I know I am very late giving my opinion about this, sorry.
But I agree with the other fellas
I have just finished reading Silent Victory, which is, I am told, is the definitive account of the US Submarine Pacific War
Not once does it write about US Subs firing star shells

Get rid of the things

I am looking forward to the finished product. Then I'll probably create a kind of realism module.
Key features will include: realistic deck armament, ammunition for cannon (only HE) and Flak (Oerlikon AP/HE, Bofors HE/AA, Kal 0.5 only AP) adapted so reduced and weakened effect similar to my ModSoup.
Certainly the Submarines modeled by ISP will be to correct still some also on the physical properties.

But this time being remains to be seen, there is still too much to do.

[XTBilly]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Speaking of testing......make sure you have the .05Alpha "Activated" into the stock game files before going to the Mission Editor to make new test missions. Your old missions (even with ships that are the same) will not work as intended without making a new test with the mod added. In my optical test missions, I had to "change out" my Porpoise sub with a new one, just to get the game to not CTD when I wanted to dive. Once I replaced the old FOTRS v1.3 Porpoise with the one from the .05Alpha (and the other ships as well) I was good.

AND, this could be a warning about making any mission for future use. Using the modded ships from whatever source we are using (meaning the mods we have "Activated") SHOULD produce a good mission in-game. Change the mod list, all bets are off when it comes to having the same mission work as expected. As an example, I always wondered about the stock "Submarine School" missions. Some of the content within them seemed to not work as expected when you played them. I forget what it was, but there seemed to be differences with how things worked (or didn't work) when playing them, compared to playing a Campaign game. It seemed the Sub School was made at a different time other than making it with the finished product.

It just might be good to wait on even my additions before making a test mission......my changes might make a difference too.

Thank you Captain for your excellent advice!

As I said before, my mission editor experience is below zero. I've never used it, but I have to. Want it or not. No option here. It's the only way for me to test all of the ships, how they react when taking damage, and balance them accordingly. Finding each and every one in the campaign is nearly impossible.

You are very correct about their behavior on different mods, a lesson I've (again) learned the hard way. Thank you for clearing this up for me.

I have two mods in the works, but I've promised myself NOT to touch the shells & torpedoes or to alter in any way the damage been inflicted. The Ship Acceleration Model makes changes to a ship's .SIM file in order to reduce their acceleration physics. The Ship Damage Model makes changes to a ship's .ZON file and ZONES.CFG to make them... "react" to inflicted damage.

Please, Captain, take your time and finish your excellent work. My mods can wait.

How's work on your depth changing camera?

Regards,
Billy.

[XTBilly]

Originally Posted by max-peck

Just had another thought Billy

Will your sinking mechanics be different if a ship is moving?

eg. a stationary ship will sink in one way, but a ship moving forward will sink differently?

Will the forward motion of the ship push it under??

If you need any more test missions where the ships are moving please let me know. I will happily make them for you

Dear Max, you're exactly the kind of captain that this mod is aimed to satisfy.

In order to test how a ship sinks I put, let's say... 5 Kiturin Marus in a single mission, torpedo them in different locations, observe, modify, doing it again. Thank you very much for your kind offer, but I would just not put any sentient creature do that for me, no matter how much I hate him.

Yes, a moving ship will sink differently, faster or slower, depending on the position of the damage inflicted, the degrees it lists, it's crew quality and the weather condition. Also, there's NO chance that it will sink aft first, after a fore torpedo hit. Bear in mind that the ships encountered in the campaign sink differently from single missions. That's the effect of different cargoes and crew quality, I guess...

As I said, I had made progress on the mod using v1.3 ships. I knew that my work was in vain, that v2.0 ships are coming, but I just couldn't stop sink... errr... working.

I've encountered all of the ship classes in the campaign, and I can say that I was satisfied enough with the results, as I saw ships torpedoed forward, to cut their speed in order to avoid been pushed to their death by their own engines. I've also seen them containing the flooding after some time and continue their course at a "safe", much slower speed. The torpedo hit had absolutely no chance of making damage to their engines, boilers etc. However, they DID reduce their speed or were dead in the water in order to stay alive.
SH4's AI is not SO bad after all.

In fact, I shall strongly recommend fore or after torpedo hits in the readme, as the AI seems to be handling dead center hits MUCH more efficiently. Also, creating fore or aft flooding on a ship makes it list more, putting undamaged compartments under water, that's where the water pressure comes in, collapsing watertight doors, destroying the previously undamaged compartment, spreading the flood further into the ship, essentially dooming it.

Please, don't make me talk further about this, at least until it's finished, they'll kick me out of Subsim!

Cheers,
Billy.

[cdrsubron7]

Hey,guys. Sorry I'm not around to help out right now, but I think you are managing quite nicely without me. I'm currently sitting in a hotel room Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania writing this messge. My son and I are here to watch the Cubs play against the Pirates. So far the Pirates are the only ones playing baseball.

I just finished touring the US Requin, a Tench class submarine on display here in Pittsburgh on the Ohio River. I really got a feeling of how cramped it was inside a submarine. With a crew of more than 80 men there couldn't be a lot room to move around in that sub. Anyway, when I get back home I will be posting many pictures from my tour of the US Requin.

[Haukka81]

Just started my first campaing:

Started in manilla.

First mission was insert troops to just couple miles from manila

No briefing , just icon in map. Briefing text was only "null"


Second mission was normal, text and all.


And weapons or radars wont have any info in equipment screen.


One wish , is it posible to get mod/new feature : weapon officer to tell torpedo solution ? Like in SH3 ,would be nice option between manual / full automated torpedo attack

[Berserker]

Once the forts mod is finished do we play with it only or do we use tmo then forts applied over tmo or some other mod??

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Bleiente

I am looking forward to the finished product. Then I'll probably create a kind of realism module.
Key features will include: realistic deck armament, ammunition for cannon (only HE) and Flak (Oerlikon AP/HE, Bofors HE/AA, Kal 0.5 only AP) adapted so reduced and weakened effect similar to my ModSoup.
Certainly the Submarines modeled by ISP will be to correct still some also on the physical properties.

But this time being remains to be seen, there is still too much to do.

Now that is a great idea! Looking forward to it after we freeze the core!

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Haukka81

Just started my first campaing:

Started in manilla.

First mission was insert troops to just couple miles from manila

No briefing , just icon in map. Briefing text was only "null"


Second mission was normal, text and all.


And weapons or radars wont have any info in equipment screen.


One wish , is it posible to get mod/new feature : weapon officer to tell torpedo solution ? Like in SH3 ,would be nice option between manual / full automated torpedo attack

Hey! Thanks for reporting so quickly, there. And of course an in-game mission with null briefing text won't have anything to identify it, so we'll have to do some detective work on that one. That was extremely good luck to get a flawed mission! You've already helped the mod.

CapnScurvy has a solution to the equipment screen and it will be implemented along with his interiors. He will also be providing the fix for the ConteVerdes and the Nagara.

Since the TDC of an American boat works so differently from a U-Boat, our WO can't actually set the TDC. The best he can do is give a speed estimate based on two stadimeter sightings at least one minute apart. And much of the time that estimate is much worse than picking a number out of a hat, as the stadimeter is the most persnickety, contrary, awful thing to wrestle with... Make a mistake and the WO can tell you the target is making 75 knots. And there are no checks and balances to help mitigate error with that method.

You're much better off using the trump card of the American submarine, the single aspect that makes it totally dominant over the U-boat: RADAR. You should have target course and speed well before you can ever sight him. No weapons officer can give you that information.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Rabid Wolverine

Once the forts mod is finished do we play with it only or do we use tmo then forts applied over tmo or some other mod??

FOTRS Ultimate will be a stand-alone mod, not depending on any other supermod and not claiming to be "compatible" with any of them. When you're done your mod list will begin with

100 FOTRS Ultimate 1.0

Then in numerical order you will have a decent amount of choices on plugins for all kinds of things. Right now we have plugins for plotting system, keyboard layout, we will have plugins for free torpedoes early in the game, different strength enemy AI, a special version of Razzle Dazzle, some submarine skins, modules to correct graphics for different monitor resolutions, sound modules, different loading screen, heck, I'm forgetting some!

Plugins will be installed in numerical order. Plugins with the same number are not compatible with each other and a choice must be made of one only. It will be so easy an officer can do it!

All in JSGME, it will be click, click, click, etc. Shazaam! You just made your own supermod! And it will work because all the components were made or certified by FOTRS Ultimate team members.