This is the comment thread! - Page 480

kraznyi_oktjabr · 06-12-17, 04:19 PM

Interesting day in Finnish politics: cabinet broke up. In Saturday True Finns party held convention in Jyväskylä. End result was that current leadership was ousted (okay, chairman Timo Soini was retiring) and replaced with "immigration critical" and "EU critical" people. There is chairmand and three vice chairmen and two of them have convictions for "agitation against group of people" (my lousy translation). In other words True Finns politics is likely to move quite far to right from where it is now.

First demand from new leadership was even stricter immigration policy. Today after meeting with True Finns new chairman Jussi Halla-aho prime minister Juha Sipilä and minister of treasury Petteri Orpo decided that continued co-operation with True Finns was not feasible. Reason cited was too large difference in values.

Prime minister will meet president tomorrow to deliver his requiest to dismiss cabinet. Now there will be new negotiations about cabinet but there are only two parties (Swedish People's Party & Christian Democrats) willing to participate. Others demand general election. This means that if negotiations lead into formation of new government there will be only single seat majority (101 of 200 seats) in parliament.

I personally prefer new general elections as that would most likely wipe True Finns from second largest party (by seats, not votes) to small opposition party. However I understand that it is not likely as prime minister's own party isn't doing that well in polls as before...

P.S. The new third vice chairman is Our Good Representative Teuvo Hakkarainen. He is also second highest ranking convict after chairman Jussi Halla-aho...

Moonlight · 06-12-17, 05:29 PM

^What a bloody mess that is, it makes our situation in the UK look like a monkeys tea party.

Eichhörnchen · 06-13-17, 12:10 AM

Is it true that in Finland you are trying out this idea of a "National Wage" (where everyone is paid a basic income instead of support from a benefits system)? If so, I'd be interested to know how this is going as I think it's an excellent idea.

kraznyi_oktjabr · 06-13-17, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eichhörnchen

Is it true that in Finland you are trying out this idea of a "National Wage" (where everyone is paid a basic income instead of support from a benefits system)? If so, I'd be interested to know how this is going as I think it's an excellent idea.

That is true. As far as I know it is currently in planning phase and there should be some sort of test phase before final rollout.

National wage was idea of Green Party and part of their platform in last general elections. Unusually most other parties fell in love with the idea and there seems to be quite large support for it. Primary advantage is that it reduces amount of different benefits and reduces bureaucracy. This should mean easier life for low income people in need of benefits (parties in left love the idea) and it should also reduce overall costs to taxpayer (parties in right love the idea).

Eichhörnchen · 06-13-17, 06:34 AM

I believe it's espoused by the Green Party over here too, but none of the others seem to be interested. I think it's a great idea because, as you say, it relieves the burden on the whole benefits system (not least because this can't be defrauded in the way it currently is) and people would keep the incentive to work and improve their lot, being taxed only on what they earned above this 'wage'.

Catfish · 06-13-17, 07:09 AM

A unified social help is also thought of in Germany, though i do not see this happening soon. Would help to get rid of a lot of bureaucracy, and good old competition will still see people work more, to be able to afford more.

The middle class slowly but surely gets ruined with the way it is now. Taxes are too high, and the government discourages self-employed work with all kinds of obstacles, apart from needing 90 or so percent of the time to fill in forms and communicate with the office of inland revenue. And if you do not keep them informed all the time, they estimate your income and demand taxes for it. You then have to prove that it was less, but only after you paid. And then maybe you get a refund, a year later

And e.g. dustbins, you have to automatically have at least two if you have an office, and you pay for lending and emptying those if you need/use it or not. You need a kitchen, a restroom a.s.o. with workers, even if they are only there half a day. Escape routes, fire regulations etc.. While this is important and ok for big companies, it breaks your back as a startup.
If you want to generate a revenue of say 1500 Euros after tax and expenses, you need an income of 8000.
Been there, done that. Cured me pretty soon.

Funnily enough just of all the EU now tries to reduce paperwork and this unnecessary bovine scatology, by higher order. Germany's national government blockheads are crying wulf about that of course

"It is our country and we say what happens or not".. oh yes, but it is also the country of all those other people, so.. go to hell.

kraznyi_oktjabr · 06-13-17, 09:21 AM

Update in Finnish cabinet crisis:

Today's big news was that True Finns' parliamentary group has fragemented into two sections: 15 seat origninal - now rather radical - True Finns and 22 seat moderate section know as "Uusi vaihtoehto" (New option). This splinter group which includes all ministers and ousted leadership will continue in cabinet. Thereforesufficient majority exists and crisis is cancelled.

Scatter! Everybody, please scatter! There is nothing to see! I request: please scatter! There is nothing...

Jimbuna · 06-13-17, 09:32 AM

I just found out it takes 5 sheep to make one wool sweater. I didn't even know they knew how to knit.

Gerald · 06-14-17, 12:14 AM

Hope it will provide a steady solution in Finland.

Jimbuna · 06-14-17, 06:01 AM

I'm not really a control freak, but... can I show the right way to do that?

Gerald · 06-14-17, 07:05 AM

Are ya sure!

STEED · 06-14-17, 08:48 AM

Control freaks should not stand for Members of Parliament in my book.

Jimbuna · 06-14-17, 09:17 AM

Oh I'm sorry, did the middle of my sentence interrupt the beginning of yours?

Von Due · 06-14-17, 09:38 AM

To have eyes bigger than one's stomach is no joke. Getting properly sized reading glasses is a nightmare.

Jimbuna · 06-14-17, 07:11 PM

^

06-12-17, 04:19 PM	#7186
kraznyi_oktjabr Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Republiken Finland Posts: 1,803 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Interesting day in Finnish politics: cabinet broke up. In Saturday True Finns party held convention in Jyväskylä. End result was that current leadership was ousted (okay, chairman Timo Soini was retiring) and replaced with "immigration critical" and "EU critical" people. There is chairmand and three vice chairmen and two of them have convictions for "agitation against group of people" (my lousy translation). In other words True Finns politics is likely to move quite far to right from where it is now. First demand from new leadership was even stricter immigration policy. Today after meeting with True Finns new chairman Jussi Halla-aho prime minister Juha Sipilä and minister of treasury Petteri Orpo decided that continued co-operation with True Finns was not feasible. Reason cited was too large difference in values. Prime minister will meet president tomorrow to deliver his requiest to dismiss cabinet. Now there will be new negotiations about cabinet but there are only two parties (Swedish People's Party & Christian Democrats) willing to participate. Others demand general election. This means that if negotiations lead into formation of new government there will be only single seat majority (101 of 200 seats) in parliament. I personally prefer new general elections as that would most likely wipe True Finns from second largest party (by seats, not votes) to small opposition party. However I understand that it is not likely as prime minister's own party isn't doing that well in polls as before... P.S. The new third vice chairman is Our Good Representative Teuvo Hakkarainen. He is also second highest ranking convict after chairman Jussi Halla-aho... __________________ You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic. - Dr. House

06-12-17, 05:29 PM	#7187
Moonlight Admiral Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Fookhall Copse Posts: 2,141 Downloads: 184 Uploads: 0	^What a bloody mess that is, it makes our situation in the UK look like a monkeys tea party. __________________

06-13-17, 12:10 AM	#7188
Eichhörnchen Starte das Auto Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: The Fens Posts: 15,755 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Is it true that in Finland you are trying out this idea of a "National Wage" (where everyone is paid a basic income instead of support from a benefits system)? If so, I'd be interested to know how this is going as I think it's an excellent idea. __________________

06-13-17, 06:34 AM	#7190
Eichhörnchen Starte das Auto Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: The Fens Posts: 15,755 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I believe it's espoused by the Green Party over here too, but none of the others seem to be interested. I think it's a great idea because, as you say, it relieves the burden on the whole benefits system (not least because this can't be defrauded in the way it currently is) and people would keep the incentive to work and improve their lot, being taxed only on what they earned above this 'wage'. __________________

06-13-17, 07:09 AM	#7191
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	A unified social help is also thought of in Germany, though i do not see this happening soon. Would help to get rid of a lot of bureaucracy, and good old competition will still see people work more, to be able to afford more. The middle class slowly but surely gets ruined with the way it is now. Taxes are too high, and the government discourages self-employed work with all kinds of obstacles, apart from needing 90 or so percent of the time to fill in forms and communicate with the office of inland revenue. And if you do not keep them informed all the time, they estimate your income and demand taxes for it. You then have to prove that it was less, but only after you paid. And then maybe you get a refund, a year later And e.g. dustbins, you have to automatically have at least two if you have an office, and you pay for lending and emptying those if you need/use it or not. You need a kitchen, a restroom a.s.o. with workers, even if they are only there half a day. Escape routes, fire regulations etc.. While this is important and ok for big companies, it breaks your back as a startup. If you want to generate a revenue of say 1500 Euros after tax and expenses, you need an income of 8000. Been there, done that. Cured me pretty soon. Funnily enough just of all the EU now tries to reduce paperwork and this unnecessary bovine scatology, by higher order. Germany's national government blockheads are crying wulf about that of course "It is our country and we say what happens or not".. oh yes, but it is also the country of all those other people, so.. go to hell. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 06-13-17 at 07:33 AM.*

06-13-17, 09:21 AM	#7192
kraznyi_oktjabr Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Republiken Finland Posts: 1,803 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Update in Finnish cabinet crisis: Today's big news was that True Finns' parliamentary group has fragemented into two sections: 15 seat origninal - now rather radical - True Finns and 22 seat moderate section know as "Uusi vaihtoehto" (New option). This splinter group which includes all ministers and ousted leadership will continue in cabinet. Thereforesufficient majority exists and crisis is cancelled. Scatter! Everybody, please scatter! There is nothing to see! I request: please scatter! There is nothing... __________________ You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic. - Dr. House

06-13-17, 09:32 AM	#7193
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,334 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	I just found out it takes 5 sheep to make one wool sweater. I didn't even know they knew how to knit. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

06-14-17, 12:14 AM	#7194
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,223 Downloads: 548 Uploads: 0	Hope it will provide a steady solution in Finland. __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

06-14-17, 06:01 AM	#7195
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,334 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	I'm not really a control freak, but... can I show the right way to do that? __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

06-14-17, 07:05 AM	#7196
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,223 Downloads: 548 Uploads: 0	Are ya sure! __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

06-14-17, 08:48 AM	#7197
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Control freaks should not stand for Members of Parliament in my book. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

06-14-17, 09:17 AM	#7198
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,334 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Oh I'm sorry, did the middle of my sentence interrupt the beginning of yours? __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

06-14-17, 09:38 AM	#7199
Von Due Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,660 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	To have eyes bigger than one's stomach is no joke. Getting properly sized reading glasses is a nightmare.

06-14-17, 07:11 PM	#7200
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,334 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	^ __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)