[REQ] WWI submarine mod

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Highbury

The biggest obstacle to a proper WWI sim on the SH engine is the inability to operate under the prize rules. SH is all about unrestricted submarine warfare. While the Germans did of course declare unrestricted submarine warfare later in the war, for the most part it was conducted under the prize rules. Lothar von Arnauld de la Perière was Commander of U-35 and U-139 in WWI and is the highest scoring of all time (446,708 GRT) .. he only fired 4 torps in his career, and one missed. It was much different then WWII.

So obviously we could get SH to look like a WWI game, but can we get it to play like one?

(I am not knocking the idea, I have far more interest in WWI sims then WWII if I had a choice.)

I have thought up a way to trick SH4 into operating under the prize rules (with limitations) thanks to new modding software, a total revision of the "nationality" concept, & sh4's improved character generation routines. Again, more info soon.

And as for the number of ships, keep in mind that there are already several WWI-era ships in the various Silent Hunter games, so that reduces the workload. For instance, four-pipers, old merchants, & V&W's . Plus, some of us might have been working on WWI ships for other mods.

[Highbury]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

Plus, some of us might have been working on WWI ships for other mods.

Yeah, I saw you were working on a WWI mod on the twcenter forums. I assume that was you... unless there is another iambecomelife out there

[keltos01]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

I have thought up a way to trick SH4 into operating under the prize rules (with limitations) thanks to new modding software, a total revision of the "nationality" concept, & sh4's improved character generation routines. Again, more info soon.

what software is that ???

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

And as for the number of ships, keep in mind that there are already several WWI-era ships in the various Silent Hunter games, so that reduces the workload. For instance, four-pipers, old merchants, & V&W's . Plus, some of us might have been working on WWI ships for other mods.

did the US send Subs to the european theater of war or fight with them elsewhere ?

[edit]



The first U.S. submarines to arrive in European waters were USS K-1, K-2, K-5, and K-6, which reached the Azores in October 1917.

Nonetheless, because the Royal Navy in 1916 had begun assigning submarines to anti-U-boat patrols in the North Sea, the English Channel, and the Irish Sea, the U.S. naval high command in June 1917 proposed sending a contingent of submarines to European waters to assist in the anti-submarine campaign. Initially, SUBLANT designated 12 submarines for the mission, divided into separate divisions to be stationed, respectively, in the Azores and on the southern coast of Ireland. These boats were chosen from the most capable the Navy had to offer: USS K-1, K-2, K-5, K-6, and E-1, constituting SUBDIV 4, for the Azores; and USS L-1 through L-4 and L-9 through L-11, constituting SUBDIV 5, for Bantry Bay, Ireland.

http://sub-log.com/united_states_submarines_in_wwi

I live at the center of the warzone for WWI

keltos

[keltos01]

So I see that Iambecomelife is interrested in a WWI mod too, since he posted a poll here :

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155297

Well maybe close this thread down then ? the kindo answers I hoped for are in the other thread...

He might've thought of placing that poll in here too, but then again he didn't.

keltos

[iambecomelife]

The software I speak of is the latest version of S3ditor. It enables zone manipulations that allow me to affect merchant ships' behavior (albeit crudely).

To make the system work I will also rely on the players themselves to use their powers of observation and deductive reasoning. No more blowing anything out of the water - early on, even British ships could not be destroyed if they were not carrying contraband. If you pay close attention, you should have some idea of what you may (and may not) sink.

[Sledgehammer427]

apparently this has been planned for quite some time

[keltos01]

Well if so now would be the time to define team members no ?

I would like to know if Peabody would be interrested in, as he is making the campaign layers for our IJN campaign and is expert at implementing thing in SH4 like new guns etc...

You too Sledgehammer, we'll need your expertise,

Iambecomelife : same goes !

I can work on the 3d stuff, zones etc... I've made quite a few playable subs so far

I have loads of intel on WWI subs and since I live in Belgium, for once I am at the heart of the conflict !

I have access to intel, have quite a few books on the subject too etc...

keltos

[Sledgehammer427]

I'd love to help! if IABL wants us to, that is.
but by all means, my services are at your disposal

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by keltos01

Well if so now would be the time to define team members no ?

I would like to know if Peabody would be interrested in, as he is making the campaign layers for our IJN campaign and is expert at implementing thing in SH4 like new guns etc...

You too Sledgehammer, we'll need your expertise,

Iambecomelife : same goes !

I can work on the 3d stuff, zones etc... I've made quite a few playable subs so far

I have loads of intel on WWI subs and since I live in Belgium, for once I am at the heart of the conflict !

I have access to intel, have quite a few books on the subject too etc...

keltos

Excellent; your assistance would be most welcome, b/c I have never made a playable sub before. As of now 3d modeling for one German sub is nearly complete; there are plans to add 3-4 more classes for starters. (Unless I obtain really excellent sources & recruit an interior modeler, interiors will be stock SH3/SH4 with appropriate modifications, like no radar).

One thing I would really like to do is add retractable masts and smoke pipes to early subs like the U-9. I am trying to teach myself how to do this but I may need help.

Plus, in addition to help with submarines I badly need information on the following:

-Uniforms
-Contraband Regulations
-Restrictions on Submarine Warfare (I know that circa 1917-1918 the rules were much more relaxed).
-Maps/pics of major harbors

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by keltos01

I've made quite a few playable subs so far

Are there any screenshots of your work somewhere ?

I have loads of intel on WWI subs and since I live in Belgium, for once I am at the heart of the conflict !

Subs of what nations ?

so you saw Morgenrot ? do you know if there are any subtitles outthere ? I speak some german, but not enough...

Yes I purchased it once on VHS. Dunno about subtitles though.

I can surely can come up with the other one.

Originally Posted by keltos01

what was the option you'd have preferred then ?

Starting my own project! It's the only real option, imo. You surely have noticed that I run my own project, don't you ?:

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/heinrich/

and they had to stop the engines to use them..

Yeah and heaved down on a rope. Btw do you have any info on this stuff ?

maybe make the guns visible at very short range only ?

How can you achieve that ?

they closed off the north sea between Norway and Scotland with mines...

They closed pretty much all relevant waters. With time, sea storms riped of more and more mines from their anchor chains and they were drifting all around making it hazardous to pass even the "cleared" passages.

what are those ?

The mine fields ?

Late into the war britain installed a new mine field that was organized in clusters and hydrophone chains all along the straight of dover barrage, with hydrophones the position of a passing u-boat would be approximated via some sort of triangulation and when it is within one of the mine cluster, this cluster would be blown up.

The mines would be ignited electrically via cables that connected the mine field chunks with the control station on land.

After this system was installed almost the entire flandern flotilla was eradicated this way within a month.

Similar heavy losses occured in the med I think after new hydrophone systems were introduce by the allies( overall getting out of and back into the home waters became an art ). The problem became so urgent that the germans saw themself forced to seriously apply quieting to their boats. By the end of the war numerous measures were taken to reduce the noise signature and before each patrol the boats would undergo listening tests to make sure the standards are met.

Quieting became a native design specification for any new design while older boats had to be modified and upgraded with various quieting measures.

Overall the later designs were significant quiter than the old noismakers where you couldn't even use the hydrophones in any meaningfull way without shutting down all engines.

late war then.

I think the drifters were not that late into the war. There would be innocently looking sail boats or something that are in reality equiped with hydrophones listening for u-boat propellers at night or something.

Also listening was practiced by simple press the ear on the hull wall below the water line.

you sure did your research!

Hell yes! I made a dedicated study for several years, initially. I got a lot of rare insights and by now I am specialized in this subject. But there is still so much I need to learn more about. Finding out so much became an obligation to create a game from it. The result of my researches only fostered my decission to develop my own game.

I perhaps spent more time with research and design than with development, lol. Now I have to study even more. I thought coding would be enough, but now I am ending up to study math, physics, fluid dynamics, ship dynamics, maneuvering, nautics, all sorts of propulsion systems and pretty much the entire technology paletty going into a ship and coastile navigational installations and then some

Holly crap, but the result is a sim with the quality of a study sim and that with WWI u-boats. ( and now even ships ) Care for a little taste?

Researching german u-boats is incredebly tedious, since most documentation was destroyed by the end of the war and a lot of what remained was stolen by the allies. It's much like collating fragments that have survived here and there. I feel like a paleontologist trying to reconstruct long gone dinos from skeletal fragments.

There are too many gaps especially when it comes down to interiour documentation. Hence I have to study the underlaying engineering to close as many of them as possible. But I am reaching the point where I can make a decent recreation.

that's gonna be hard to implement in SH4... how do you search ships ???

Does SH even have any goods classification ? I remember there was some basic distinction like ammo, fuel and something else in SHIII ? But what effect did this actually have on the game ?

yeah but still, Die Schalen der Zorns isn't that bad, just looks awful...

Oh yeah, SOF certainly has its merrits that I enjoyed to play. The fact alone that it is WWI makes a difference for me already. SOF was good to wetten the appetite so to speak but I guess it is time to move on now and pull out something real.

who will write the campaign layers ?

Dunno, I am not involved in this mod.

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427

I remember reading that the only defense they (the brits) had for scapa flow was a bunch of enlisted in rowboats with hammers, when spotting a german periscope, they would row over and smash the periscope until it disappeared

Lol, never heared about that but I think the brits cam up with a special ammo to shoot at submerged subs. Didn't worked out of course

The germans would actually play pranks on them by dropping buoys in british coastile waters that look like a periscope, just for the thrill

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

And Deamon, my mod's intended to be an approximation of WWI warfare within the limitations of SH4.

Sure thing, mate, go ahead. I am always curious what you can pull out

However, some crucial features definitely will be included. Q-ships are in, as are mine barrages.

I am wondering how you want to make the Q-Ships hide their weapons untill the last moment and then drop the camouflage ? Is there any native support for this kind of features in SHIV ?

I have thought of a way to implement contraband searching for merchants, thanks to the excellent S3ditor v 9.9 - this is being tested at the moment.

I am wondering how this is supposed to work out.

For a detailed WWI sub sim we'll have to wait for your mod (which I want now - badly - but that's another story!) Thanks for your comments.

Errm, mod ?