Russian Politics Thread

[Catfish]

I guess the Eu will become even more "unreliable" now towards Russia.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

^The question being.....will there be reciprocal action taken?

No, the quesitoin is will there ever be meaningful action? Action that means something. Will Nord Stream 2 be canclled by Germany? Will Sputnik V not b e bought? Will gas imports be stopped?

Tit for tat with living pawns is just - well, comedy.

Russia expelled those three while they conerenced with that EU jester sitting with them at the table. I think there is no way how they could have told the EU any clearer what they really think of the EU. They do not take it any serious at all. And why would they want to do that?


Germany's Russia diplomacy has exploded into its face. Germany's Middle East diplomacy has exploded into its face. Germany's China diplomacy has exploded into its face. Germany's Iran diplomacy policy explodes into its face. John Lee Hooker's song should maybe become our new national anthem. "Boo-boom-boom-boom".

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Moscow expels Polish, Swedish, German diplomats

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55954162

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/w...omats-Ministry

Those diplomats if memory serves showed up in support of Navalny during hiw court hearing.


Immagine a team of Russian diplomats comming to a court hearing over say German political protestors, or the recent US capitol hill rioters.


So it is not entirely unjustified, but who would mention that sort of thing?

[Rockstar]

I wonder if those European Navalny fans are aware of a New York Times article written in 2011?

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/10/w...es-russia.html

MR. NAVALNY has Nordic good looks, a caustic sense of humor and no political organization.

Five years ago, he quit the liberal party Yabloko, frustrated with the liberals’ infighting and isolation from mainstream Russian opinion. Liberals, meanwhile, have deep reservations about him, because he espouses Russian nationalist views. He has appeared as a speaker alongside neo-Nazis and skinheads, and once starred in a video that compares dark-skinned Caucasus militants to cockroaches. While cockroaches can be killed with a slipper, he says that in the case of humans, “I recommend a pistol.”

“Revolution is unavoidable,” he told the Russian edition of Esquire, in an interview published this month. “Simply because the majority of people understand that the system is wrong. When you are in the company of bureaucrats you hear them talking about who has stolen everything, why nothing works and how horrible everything is.”
He was less definitive about the future he envisioned for the country, saying only that he hoped it would “resemble a huge, irrational, metaphysical Canada.”

The new Russia of Navalny's dream "a huge, irrational, metaphysical Canada"

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I wonder if those European Navalny fans are aware of a New York Times article written in 2011?

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/10/w...es-russia.html

The new Russia of Navalny's dream "a huge, irrational, metaphysical Canada"

Yes, that points at some of the reasons for my reservations about him.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I wonder if those European Navalny fans are aware of a New York Times article written in 2011?

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/10/w...es-russia.html

The new Russia of Navalny's dream "a huge, irrational, metaphysical Canada"

Yes, people often forget his ethno-nationalist roots, etc.


He is the good guy after all.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Yes, people often forget his ethno-nationalist roots, etc.
He is the good guy after all.

"All is relative."

[mapuc]

In the eyes of the Politicians in EU and USA he is now the good guy.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by mapuc

In the eyes of the Politicians in EU and USA he is now the good guy.

Markus

After comparing the article from 9 December 2011
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/10/w...es-russia.html

to today's article from 2 February 2021
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/02/o...son-putin.html

I believe the correct term to describe our neo-nazi good guy would be 'useful idiot'


What I really want to know, is 'Neo-nazi good guy' considered an oxymoron or a paradox?

[Skybird]

Lavrov is notorious for not giving his negotiating partners an inch, but this time he even managed to rob Borrell of his political dignity.

https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-russia...nch/a-56483003


Well, the EU stumbles over its own naivety and impotence. Myself, I do not even understand why Borrell went to Moscow. The EU got what it has asked for - Moscow did not let the invitation pass unused, but dished out a spanking. Of course it did - what did they expect in Brussels? Thats the Brussels that wants Russia to investigate the poisoning of Navalny and declare itself the guilty perpetrator that way. Serious...?

[Catfish]

Maybe Navalny is a useful idiot, a nationalist (b.t.w. what does the US or UK have against this ?). But you cannot deny him courage and a harsh treating by the russian government, even admitted by Russia.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...-navalny-harsh

Also of course the ridculous accusation:
“You were obligated to provide documents and provide proper explanations for not attending,” a prison official told Navalny while describing his parole violation during the hearing.

Navalny reminded the official that he had been indisposed due to his poisoning, as governments and human rights activists around the world knew.

“How about I was in a coma?” Navalny said. “Then I was in intensive care. I provided medical documents. You had my place of residence and contact information.”


So EU's Borrell followed an invitation from Lavrov. Logical he would mention Navalny. So this "invitation" was intended to punish and discredit him, ah.
Still it is not exactly a PR coup for Russia.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Still it is not exactly a PR coup for Russia.

In a way it was. Depends on who their target audience was.


It certainly was a spanking for the EU. Russia invited them: "drop your pants!". And so the EU went there and dropped its pants. And got the spanking.



I had a good laugh. They practically asked for it. Yeah, there will be precious more of sanctions. Doesnt seem to impress anyone else outside Brussels.

[ikalugin]

The irony ofc is that sanctions are by now an instrument of signalling displeasure and only reinforce confrontation.


If EU wanted to change the Russian behavior then presenting a credible realistic path to lifting the sanctions would be the way.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Maybe Navalny is a useful idiot, a nationalist (b.t.w. what does the US or UK have against this ?). But you cannot deny him courage and a harsh treating by the russian government, even admitted by Russia.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...-navalny-harsh

Also of course the ridculous accusation:
“You were obligated to provide documents and provide proper explanations for not attending,” a prison official told Navalny while describing his parole violation during the hearing.

Navalny reminded the official that he had been indisposed due to his poisoning, as governments and human rights activists around the world knew.

“How about I was in a coma?” Navalny said. “Then I was in intensive care. I provided medical documents. You had my place of residence and contact information.”


So EU's Borrell followed an invitation from Lavrov. Logical he would mention Navalny. So this "invitation" was intended to punish and discredit him, ah.
Still it is not exactly a PR coup for Russia.

Don't get me wrong I'm not a Russian spy. It's just that I don't support neo-nazis with homicidal tendencies anymore than they do. And yes, it does seem the U.S. and U.K. might. But don't ignore the four politicians who publicly supported the neo-nazi. and where they came from.


Russian Foreign Ministry - МИД России

JainutairsSpy ocSelan1m7 at h1n:i5dsnoirnefd0 aimdPMm ·

Official Press-Release of the Moscow Directorate of Russia's Federal Penitentiary Service

17 January 2021

Federal Penitentiary Service of Russia, Moscow Directorate, hereby informs:

On January 17, 2021, at the Sheremetyevo airport, officers of the Investigation Department of the Operations Department of the Moscow Directorate of the Federal Penitentiary Service of Russia took into custody Mr. Alexey Navalny who had been previously given a suspended sentence by a court of law and who has been on the Service’s wanted list since December 29, 2020 for multiple violations of his probation terms.

A court of law shall rule on the restriction measures for Mr. Navalny’s violations. Until the ruling is passed, Mr. Navalny shall remain in custody.

Mr. Navalny was taken into custody on the order issued by the Head of the Moscow Directorate of the Federal Penitentiary Service of Russia on December 29, 2020 that effectually put Mr. Alexey Navalny on the Service’s wanted list as a convicted person who committed systematic violations of his probation terms. The order prescribed taking Mr. Navalny into custody as soon as his whereabouts were located.

Previously, Mr. Navalny’s lawyer was informed of both the order putting Mr. Navalny on the wanted list and the order issued by the Department of Corrective Services of the Federal Penitentiary Service’s Moscow Branch to the Simonovsky District Court of Moscow effectively revoking Mr. Navalny’s suspended sentence and reinstating the actual sentence.

Earlier, on 30 December 2014, Zamoskvoretsky District Court of Moscow sentenced Mr. Navalny to serve 3 years and 6 months in prison and pay a fine of 500 thousand rubles on the charges of fraud and money laundering. The court ruled the sentence to be suspended with a 5-year probation term. On August 4, 2017, Simonovsky District Court of Moscow extended Mr. Navalny’s probation period by twelve more months.

However, Federal Penitentiary Service of Russia has registered multiple violations of the probation terms by Mr. Navalny during the year 2020; namely, Mr. Navalny has failed to check in for registration at the Department of Corrective Services of the Federal Penitentiary Service’s Moscow Directorate twice a month as per the assigned schedule. There were two registration appointments missed in January 2020, and one in each of the following months: February, March, July and August, 2020. Last time Mr. Navalny checked in with the Department of Corrective Services was on August 3, 2020. All this time the Department of Corrective Services has been warning Mr. Navalny that these violations could lead to his suspended sentence being revoked and replaced with an actual prison term.

Department of Corrective Services suspended the requirement for Mr. Navalny to check in for registration for the duration of his treatment at the Charité Hospital in Berlin, Germany. However, Charité Hospital’s official statements indicated that Mr. Navalny’s treatment there was completed on September 23, 2020. Later, Mr. Navalny confirmed this fact in a notification he sent to the Federal Penitentiary Service of Russia. In the apparent absence of any valid reasons Mr. Navalny has not appeared for any of the regular check-in appointments with the Federal Penitentiary Service of Russia from October 2020 until the end of his probation period, thus violating the probation terms again.

Article 190, Section 4 of the Penal Enforcement Code of the Russian Federation maintains that in case of a suspended sentence, systematic violations of the probation terms or evading the Federal Penitentiary Service’s control warrant an order by the Head of the Department of Corrective Services to the court effectively revoking the suspended sentence and replacing it with the actual sentence as ordered by the court.

All Russian citizens shall be equal before the law, scrupulously abide by it, aware of the inevitability of responsibility for the crimes committed.

In 2019, Russia’s Federal Penitentiary Service revoked suspended sentences in relation to more than 15,000 people, sending them to prison to serve the sentence.

More than 23,000 convicts have had correctional work replaced with incarceration.
This practice has been used in the case of those convicts who had a chance to serve their sentence out of jail but failed to use it.

Issued by the Press Service of the Moscow Directorate of the Federal Penitentiary Service of Russia, Moscow Directorate
УФСИН России по г. Москв

[Skybird]

There is no doubt for mne that Russia makes abusive use of its lawcode to get hand on Nawalny and lock him away, out of sight and out if mind. Catfish is right when he ridicules the Russian authporities for Nawalny not reporting in prresenc ein Russia while he laid more dead than alive in a German hpsital after heavign been poisoned - and most likely by right those who hold court over him. Laws can be used in good faith, and for abuse, the latter is the case here. Many regimes of the oast and present did and do so, then claiming law and order for their own suppression of opposition and unwnated opinion, and trying to escape being accused for it. However, tis a knbown method in Western states as well. Assange being a prominent example. The crimes committed by the Stasi in the gDR, all were covered by the GDR'S laws, so where the crimes committed by the GeStapo.


States are the coldest of all monsters. ALL states.