The new and improved four bearings method

[makman94]

Originally Posted by Pisces

This is probably the part you mean. It's a 2 page excerpt of the MB manual:

http://www.filefront.com/13598315/bearingsonly_TMA.pdf

yes Pisces, thats it ! the original pages of manual containes another same example with it (but with different bearings ,speed and courses) .but it is the same example with this.

[Farinhir]

I had not noticed this one yet. I have been dealing with real life which prevents me from living my dream as a terror from the deep.

I am looking over the information now and I have to say that it is pretty good. I will continue to read through the information but it is pretty clear with what I have seen thus far.

Well done. I am also looking over the graphical proof you sent. I am still interested in trying to formulate the problem, but I can tell it will, most likely, not be general algebra.

[Pisces]

For those that are curious, you can find the full "Radar Navigation and Maneuvering Board Manual" package at this link:

http://msi.nga.mil/NGAPortal/MSI.por...2&pubCode=0008

[toniloCoyote]

Hello Kuikueg.

Firstly, congratulations for your work.

I have had to fight some time to understand the new method. I had big problems with the final step in section 4 (the four bearing), when you explain that we have to repeat what we have learned in section 2 for computing the actual course of the target.

At first I thought my head was hard and so I did not understand this step, but after reading the section 5, I realized that something was wrong (apart from the fact that my head is very hard).

In the last drawing of section 4 you say that the actual course of the target is the green line, and the only green line in the picture is one side of Triangle AEI, that is, the side A-I.

I spent an hour trying to understand how I could reach the result of that the actual course was the A-I line by using the method described in Section 2.
Now I believe have understood that the drawing does not agree with the explanation; that the actual course of the target is the P-R line, the point V is the "arbitrary point", the line is drawn between point P and V, the point C is the mirror of P, h is the line parallel to b3, and so we get the point R.

I think the confusion lies in two places. First in where the text says that the actual course of the target is the green line, and second, because in this drawing all the lines and procedures are posed in reverse order to those in section 2 (wherein there you use the lines b1 and b2, here you use lines b4 and b3) and this adds a bit of confusion.

If this is so, I believe that, in addition to fix the text where you say that the actual course of target is the green line (really, it's the black P-R), it can be much clearer if you explain that V is now the arbitrary point and C is the mirror of P through V.

If this is not so and I'm wrong, please excuse me. I have to study more.
Please, excuse any blunder due to my poor English / Mathematics.

Best regards.

[Kuikueg]

Originally Posted by toniloCoyote

Hello Kuikueg.

Firstly, congratulations for your work.

I have had to fight some time to understand the new method. I had big problems with the final step in section 4 (the four bearing), when you explain that we have to repeat what we have learned in section 2 for computing the actual course of the target.

At first I thought my head was hard and so I did not understand this step, but after reading the section 5, I realized that something was wrong (apart from the fact that my head is very hard).

In the last drawing of section 4 you say that the actual course of the target is the green line, and the only green line in the picture is one side of Triangle AEI, that is, the side A-I.

I spent an hour trying to understand how I could reach the result of that the actual course was the A-I line by using the method described in Section 2.
Now I believe have understood that the drawing does not agree with the explanation; that the actual course of the target is the P-R line, the point V is the "arbitrary point", the line is drawn between point P and V, the point C is the mirror of P, h is the line parallel to b3, and so we get the point R.

I think the confusion lies in two places. First in where the text says that the actual course of the target is the green line, and second, because in this drawing all the lines and procedures are posed in reverse order to those in section 2 (wherein there you use the lines b1 and b2, here you use lines b4 and b3) and this adds a bit of confusion.

If this is so, I believe that, in addition to fix the text where you say that the actual course of target is the green line (really, it's the black P-R), it can be much clearer if you explain that V is now the arbitrary point and C is the mirror of P through V.

If this is not so and I'm wrong, please excuse me. I have to study more.
Please, excuse any blunder due to my poor English / Mathematics.

Best regards.

Hi, toniloCoyote, and thank you very much for your feedback.
The line P-R, which is the actual course of the target, is actually dark green, not black. At the time of writing I didn't realize I had already put a green line in the drawing and I understand the confusion that comes from it being there. Ironically, the (light) green line A-I is not part of the construction and was only there to make it clearer by adding symmetry and pointing out the geometrical nature of the rest of the lines, alluded to later (medians).

The construction of section 2 is done right to left, with the point P fixed and N (not V, but we are talking about the same point) as the arbitrary one, but there is no essential difference between what is done in section 2 and what needs to be done in the final step of section 4.

Anyway, you got everything right and I have corrected the document to avoid that confusion and updated the link in the first post. I hope nobody else will get lost with that again.

I am sorry for the trouble caused. I don't believe your head is hard, you have proved otherwise, and your English is clean and clear to me, though I suspect we are both spanish speakers.

[toniloCoyote]

Sorry, In my old LCD the line shows black, and N looks like a V
(Pedí por Navidades un monitor nuevo, pero la crisis, ya sabes ...)

Thank you, and best regards.

[toniloCoyote]

Hi again, Kuikueg.

I think you have changed the link's text but not the href.
It could be matter about my computer's cache, but I had to copy/paste the text for downloading the new file.

Cheers.

[Kuikueg]

Originally Posted by toniloCoyote

Hi again, Kuikueg.

I think you have changed the link's text but not the href.
It could be matter about my computer's cache, but I had to copy/paste the text for downloading the new file.

Cheers.

You are right. Link corrected.

¡Sabía que hablabas español!
Saludos

[Trevally.]

Thanks Kuikueg for this new improved method

I have written an ingame tutorial based on this method
for use with TDWs UI (Real Nav). See here
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=177725

[musides]

Excellent work and great descriptions!

[BigBANGtheory]

Its good work dude, plus a Trevally tutorial this is turning out to be a good and shiny day.

[gi_dan2987]

Originally Posted by Kuikueg

You are right. Link corrected.

¡Sabía que hablabas español!
Saludos

I use Nefelodamon's method, if that was originally based on your idea then thank you for coming up with such a helpful formula. I must say, your math skills are outstanding, and if the Germans didn't use this historically than I don't know what they were thinking. My question is, this method is only true assuming that all variables remain the same correct? I've had ships change course and speed on me, throwing all my calculations out the window. But of course it's hard to tell if they've changed course or speed until all your fish miss the target. Also, how can you effectively attack a convoy at night when it's pitch black out so UZO's unusable, and with 100% realism??

[Snotface]

Hi,

it looks like FileFront has removed the file. Does anyone else have a link, please?

Thanks

[Buccaneer]

@ Kuikueg
Excelent tutorial to track contacts while manouvering
To test this method in SH3 i created small mission with big randomizing zones for spawn and waypoint (for greater target course deviation). Before running the mission i enabled marks on map (for later periscope check). Crawling around for ~2 hrs collecting bearings i finally made the target true course line. Now the moment of truth - periscope up - visual check (mark appeares on the map) - zoom in map... ... ship travels along the estimated course with ~20m offset to the side(in map scale). Precision was amazing

Thanks for sharing

Originally Posted by Snotface

Hi,

it looks like FileFront has removed the file. Does anyone else have a link, please?

Thanks

I found the document here - www.gamefront.com

[kylania]

So I've been really disappointed with this recently and turns out it's all my fault! I've been trying to use it with Real Navigation and every time I did I got totally incorrect and nonsensical results. I watched videos for hours, I read PDFs for hours, I tried practice results, I wrote down all the steps one at a time. Nothing worked.

Then today I realized that in step 27 of 31 steps I was making a mark on the WRONG LINE the whole time. Hopefully it'll work next time I find a target. heh