[WIP] Lighthouses mod

[gap]

Originally Posted by Kendras

Your PM box on Subsim is always full, isn't it ?

I have erased a few old messages

Originally Posted by Kendras

I prefer a too much bright light during day, than not enough bright during night.

Right, but maybe we can find a balance: as it is now, the light is very bright at night and way too bright during the day

Remember whe are not (yet) simulating Créac'h's light

Originally Posted by Kendras

In graphic options.

[gap]

What do you think about this cracking line?

Does it look natural enough? (cracked surface's texture is provisional, I will extract the final texture from this picture, and I will add 3D torn/warped iron bars to it).

Should I add another crack line near the base of the tower?

Originally Posted by gap

What do you think about this cracking line?

Does it look natural enough? (cracked surface's texture is provisional, I will extract the final texture from this picture, and I will add 3D torn/warped iron bars to it).

Should I add another crack line near the base of the tower?

Gap, yes it's nice, but let's not loose time on modelling destroyed models. I really would like that we go forward with new lighthouses. There is also the sea bed depth to rework. The only important thing is that the light can be destroyed. I am thinking this : in order that the AI considers the beacon destroyed when the light is destroyed, the main tower should be transfered in the terrain locations folder. The platform would be the real land unit, and once destroyed, the AI doesn't attack the tower anymore. We can do this, since I've discovered the perfect relation between coordinates in meters and in degrees.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Kendras

Gap, yes it's nice, but let's not loose time on modelling destroyed models. I really would like that we go forward with new lighthouses. There is also the sea bed depth to rework. The only important thing is that the light can be destroyed. I am thinking this : in order that the AI considers the beacon destroyed when the light is destroyed, the main tower should be transfered in the terrain locations folder. The platform would be the real land unit, and once destroyed, the AI doesn't attack the tower anymore. We can do this, since I've discovered the perfect relation between coordinates in meters and in degrees.

Well, to be honest Kendras, in my plans AI units shouldn't attack at all our lighthouses, except for the ones located near strategic ports. Can you imagine the RAF continuosly patrolling the Gulf of Biscay in search of French lighthouses to ravage, instead of attacking German u-boats and naval traffic lol? A total waste of ammo, and probably an unbalancing factor in game.

Besides that, unlike SH5, SHIII doesn't remove destroyed units from the rosters they belong to, so we would often see our beacons destroyed under our eyes, only to see them unharmed as if nothing had happened during the next patrol.

That said, I have decided to make our lighthouses destroyable and to visually display damage occurred partly for fun (in case we want to use them as unconventional targets for our gunnery drills) and partly for realism, in the rare evenience that they are caught in the cross-fire of a battle involving air, surface and submarine units, in which case it would be nice if they accidentally took some collateral damage.

I am sure that you will agree with me that the above reasons are not enough for wasting our limited time on simlulating a complex damage model. I only started yesterday night to split our model in a few destroyable parts, and the simple modifications I had in mind are pretty much done. If you see that I delay the beta release for more than 1, max 2 days from now, it will mean that experiments with my sound-triggred-by-waves idea are taking longer than expected.

In the meanwhile I hope that your realism tweaks on the light effect will be ready and that you will have made some progress with our wave foam idea. Time spent on those items will be well spent, as they well be used on many models

Hi,

I've discovered a very nice webpage which gives positions and infos about French lighthouses : http://www.pharesdefrance.fr/index.p...tes-des-phares

During all the morning, I've searched for the most important (size or position) ones, with real coordinates converted to SH3. Here is the result :

 

I've also added Bishop Rock.

Originally Posted by gap

What do you think about this cracking line?

...

Does it look natural enough? (cracked surface's texture is provisional, I will extract the final texture from this picture, and I will add 3D torn/warped iron bars to it).

Should I add another crack line near the base of the tower?

If you really want to make the beacon destroyable, so I think one crackline is enough, but I would place it higher :



The red part is the land unit, and the grey part is the terrain object. Thus, when the unit is destroyed, it collapses, and it remains only the terrain object which is no more attacked.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Kendras

I've discovered a very nice webpage which gives positions and infos about French lighthouses : http://www.pharesdefrance.fr/index.p...tes-des-phares

During all the morning, I've searched for the most important (size or position) ones, with real coordinates converted to SH3. Here is the result :

 

I've also added Bishop Rock.

Nice website and good work

I had started doing something similar in Google Earth, with lighthouse names and positions shown on map and clickable icons linked to individual pages with pictures, informations and relevant links for each lighthouse.
I had planned to add all the French lighthouses; it is not finished yet, but if you want I can send the file your way

Originally Posted by Kendras

If you really want to make the beacon destroyable, so I think one crackline is enough, but I would place it higher

I like your layout, but it is a bit too late now. I have already finished modelling the damaged tower according to the picture I had posted the day before yesterday; I am ready applying to it any slight modification you might suggest, but I am afraid that completely redoing it would be too much work. Nothing is lost though: I will use your drawing for any similar full-concrete lighthouse we might need in game in the near future.

Originally Posted by Kendras

The red part is the land unit, and the grey part is the terrain object. Thus, when the unit is destroyed, it collapses, and it remains only the terrain object which is no more attacked.

I think I get your point: making enemy AI units to attack the lighthouse, but without raging against it, when the beacon is damaged beyond repair. Isn't it?
The approach you are suggesting is valid, but I have painted some nice damage decals and I would like them to show up on the whole lighthouse model, when it is hit by a shell or by a bomb. Just a little cosmetic feature, but, if possible, I wouldn't like giving it up.

The way I have currently set the lighthouse, the base plus the lower portion of the tower are the main model, and the tower top is stored in a separate model, linked to a child node of the main unit node. The two parts have separate damage boxes. If the top tower is destroyed, it will be removed from the game together with the equipments (platform, lantern, etc) linked to it. On this evenience, the space left at the top of the lower tower portion will be filled, by means of the ObjectRemains controller, with the concrete debris + iron bars model shown in the picture above. If need be, the debris mesh can be made part of the main model, but I think it would be a waste of memory, as normally we wouldn't see it.

If we wanted the AI to stop attacking our lighthouse as soon, or shortly after, the top model is destroyed, we should link tower top's damage box to a zone whose hit points are ca. equal to the hit points of the whole unit (as set in its .zon file/CollisionableObject controller). The problem is that if the unit is destroyed, it is possible that also the main model will be removed. If that was true, it would render the splitting of the unit in two parts totally pointless, as with the settings I am suggesting they both would be removed at once. The model of a destroyed unit having to be removed from game, is not so obvious though: when the hp's of a ship are totally depleted, her lifeless wreck stays in game for a while until it sinks down, and in the meanwhile enemies stop attacking it.
Maybe we should use a different zone for the main unit, similar to the one assigned to the top, but with 'Destructible' parameter set to 'No'.

What do you think? Should we try?

Originally Posted by gap

I had started doing something similar in Google Earth, with lighthouse names and positions shown on map and clickable icons linked to individual pages with pictures, informations and relevant links for each lighthouse. I had planned to add all the French lighthouses; it is not finished yet, but if you want I can send the file your way.

Yes, I'm curious to see what lighthouses you want to add.

By the way, I have created an Excel file to store and calculate coordinates. Here it is :

http://www.mediafire.com/file/sjb4as...ordinates.xlsx

Originally Posted by gap

I like your layout, but it is a bit too late now. I have already finished modelling the damaged tower according to the picture I had posted the day before yesterday; I am ready applying to it any slight modification you might suggest

I would delete the 2 small black portions of concrete remaining on top (after the explosion of the gaz tank, they would have been thrown in the air). And I would add another row of metalic bars.

Originally Posted by gap

I think I get your point: making enemy AI units to attack the lighthouse, but without raging against it, when the beacon is damaged beyond repair. Isn't it?

Yes. Once the light device is destroyed, the AI doesn't fire anymore on the beacon.

Originally Posted by gap

If we wanted the AI to stop attacking our lighthouse as soon, or shortly after, the top model is destroyed, we should link tower top's damage box to a zone whose hit points are ca. equal to the hit points of the whole unit (as set in its .zon file/CollisionableObject controller).

Originally Posted by gap

Maybe we should use a different zone for the main unit, similar to the one assigned to the top, but with 'Destructible' parameter set to 'No'.

Yes, sure.

Originally Posted by gap

The problem is that if the unit is destroyed, it is possible that also the main model will be removed.

What do you think? Should we try?

Let's try, and see what happens.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Kendras

Yes, I'm curious to see what lighthouses you want to add.

Um... I have made no selection: so far I have marked on map all the lighthouses that I am aware of from Saint-Jean-de-Luz in Aquitaine to Lorient. I thought we better have an overall view of all the lighthouses available before we decide which one to model in game

Here is the file:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/97wsw...f%20France.kmz

If you have Google Earth installed, just double click on the kmz file to add it to the list of GE's custom locations. The lighthouses are found in a folder called "Lighthouses of France" and they are grouped by department. Click on any item in the list, to zoom the map on it. Click on the icons on map to open a window with information, pictures and links. If you want the coordinates of any lighthouse, right click on its name in the list or on its icon on map, and select 'Properties'.

Originally Posted by Kendras

By the way, I have created an Excel file to store and calculate coordinates. Here it is

Useful, thanks

Since we are at it: do you want me to update the coordinate calculator spreadsheet with your adjusted formulas?

Originally Posted by Kendras

I would delete the 2 small black portions of concrete remaining on top (after the explosion of the gaz tank, they would have been thrown in the air).

Okay I will remove them, no problem, but I am afraid that the explosion of that gas cylinder wont be enough to demolish the top of the solid reinforced concrete tower by itself. The explosion will probably blast away some railings and part of the eaves though

Originally Posted by Kendras

And I would add another row of metalic bars.

Okay, will do that too, but... I am loosing my sight on those tiny bars lol

Originally Posted by Kendras

Yes. Once the light device is destroyed, the AI doesn't fire anymore on the beacon.

Originally Posted by gap

If we wanted the AI to stop attacking our lighthouse as soon, or shortly after, the top model is destroyed, we should link tower top's damage box to a zone whose hit points are ca. equal to the hit points of the whole unit (as set in its .zon file/CollisionableObject controller).

Originally Posted by Kendras

That's logical: the main unit inherits damage suffered by any of its parts linked to a damage box. If hit points of the top tower model are as high as the overall hit points of the unit, or even higher, there is an high chance that the unit will be destroyed as soon as, or before, the tower-top is blasted away.

Originally Posted by Kendras

Let's try, and see what happens.

[Parkera]

Wow a ton of work and efforts thus far! Been reading thru all the posts and LOVING the concept and ideas. Keep it up guys it will all be worth is in the end

Originally Posted by gap

Um... I have made no selection: so far I have marked on map all the lighthouses that I am aware of from Saint-Jean-de-Luz in Aquitaine to Lorient. I thought we better have an overall view of all the lighthouses available before we decide which one to model in game

Here is the file:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/97wsw...f%20France.kmz

I've just downloaded Google Earth. Well, this tool gives a lot of infos !

Great work ! This will be particularly uesful to place harbours' lights. How did you find all these small lighthouses ? Could you do the same job for the lights of Brittany ? A last note : some of the LH were built after WWII (in particular on L'Ile d'Yeu), and we should not place them in SH3 world.

Originally Posted by gap

Since we are at it: do you want me to update the coordinate calculator spreadsheet with your adjusted formulas?

You mean your excel file ? I already did it, even if I don't use it very much.

Originally Posted by gap

Okay I will remove them, no problem, but I am afraid that the explosion of that gas cylinder wont be enough to demolish the top of the solid reinforced concrete tower by itself.

That's why I wanted the top part to be smaller.

Originally Posted by Parkera1705

Wow a ton of work and efforts thus far! Been reading thru all the posts and LOVING the concept and ideas. Keep it up guys it will all be worth is in the end

[gap]

Originally Posted by Parkera

Wow a ton of work and efforts thus far! Been reading thru all the posts and LOVING the concept and ideas. Keep it up guys it will all be worth is in the end

Originally Posted by Kendras

I've just downloaded Google Earth. Well, this tool gives a lot of infos !

Originally Posted by Kendras

Great work ! This will be particularly uesful to place harbours' lights. How did you find all these small lighthouses ?

My main source is The Lighthouse Directory that you already know.
Talking about French lighthouses, my second best source is Les Phares de France which provides detailed information, historical background and drawings for most lighthouses, included the ones no longer in place.
Wikipedia articles on single lighthouses often provide good quality pictures and rough world coordinates. The quality of the articles themselves varies, but sometimes you can get from there information not found elsewhere.
openseamap.org, that you also know, is a great tool for locating small and/or little known lighthouses and beacons, whose exact position is not clear from other sources.

Originally Posted by Kendras

Could you do the same job for the lights of Brittany ?

Sure, that was the initial plan

Originally Posted by Kendras

A last note : some of the LH were built after WWII (in particular on L'Ile d'Yeu), and we should not place them in SH3 world.

I made every effort to only include the lighthouses and beacons that are known to have been in place during WWII. I might have done some mistakes though. Moreover, in case of doubt on the building or demolition dates of certain lighthouses, I often decided to list them anyway, postponig to a second moment the decision whether to include them or not in our mod.
Talking more specifically about the Phare de la Petite-Foule or Grand Phare de l'île d'Yeu, if that's what you meant in your example, the current lighthouse was built in 1950, but before and during WWII there was another lighthouse in the same station, built in 1830 and destroyed by the nazists on 25 August 1944

Originally Posted by Kendras

You mean your excel file ? I already did it, even if I don't use it very much.

Okay, I will give it low priority then but I think I will update in anyway and make it available in case anyone else might need it. Great discovery on the constant terrain / unit coordinate offset btw

Originally Posted by Kendras

That's why I wanted the top part to be smaller.

I got you now, but don't worry, the effect will be even nicer after separating eaves and railings from the current tower-top model, and making them destroyable

Btw: if you have no other remarks, I think the damaged tower model is ready:

While working on those broken/bent rebar rods, I have discovered an important exception to the second law of thermodinamics: no matter if, given an ordered system, its entropy naturally tends to increase over time; simulating its effects requires a lot of work anyway lol

Originally Posted by gap

Okay, I will give it low priority then but I think I will update in anyway and make it available in case anyone else might need it.

One can also calculate coordinates for SH3 with my excel file, which contains the correct formula.

Originally Posted by gap

Great discovery on the constant terrain / unit coordinate offset btw

That was a little challenge.

Originally Posted by gap

Btw: if you have no other remarks, I think the damaged tower model is ready

Cool. Nice job. Time to test in game !

[gap]

Originally Posted by Kendras

One can also calculate coordinates for SH3 with my excel file, which contains the correct formula.

Did you update graph inputs with your offsets?

Besides doing that, I also wanted to add a checkbox to spreadhsheet's interface letting users to choose whether they want to match output unit/location coordinates or not. Reason is that, when the two coordinate systems used in SHIIII have to be matched, the level of precision relative to the input coordinates is lower (only 3m) compared to the one of unmatched coordinates (0.12 cm and 1 m respectively for locations and units).
Once those features are added and the spreadsheet polished, we could release it under our names for other modders to mess with it. What do you think?

Originally Posted by Kendras

That was a little challenge.

I could see from your and MLF's screenies there was a constant small offset, but how you calculated it is still a mistery to me

Originally Posted by Kendras

Cool. Nice job. Time to test in game !

I don't think today I will have much time for modding, but I hope to release the first beta version tomorrow.

BTW: did you get time to make the last small finetunings to the light FX and to work on the sea foam FX? It would be nice if they could be added to the upcoming version.

One last idea I had, is creating some simple material-specific falling debris effects (concrete, stone, bricks, metal, etc) which can be triggered when the corresponding damage zones (the ones we have added to zones.cfg for this mod), will suffer a given amount of damage. Just a few simple 3D particles, not to burden too much our GPU's. There is no hurry on that, but I wish those effects to be ready before we release our next lighthouse. We could dig in RacerBoy's/TheDarkWraith's FX mods for SHIII, IV and 5, to see how he achieved this particular effect. With that done, I don't really see what other feature we could add to our interactive lighthouses. That would likely be the state-of-art, as far as SHIII limits are concerned. What do you think?

Originally Posted by gap

Once those features are added and the spreadsheet polished, we could release it under our names for other modders to mess with it. What do you think?

OK.

Originally Posted by gap

BTW: did you get time to make the last small finetunings to the light FX and to work on the sea foam FX? It would be nice if they could be added to the upcoming version.

Yes, I tried to add a foam effect, but I failed until now (tried to add water falls after waves crashed on the rock). I don't even know if that's possible. What kind of effect would you like to have ?

Originally Posted by gap

One last idea I had, is creating some simple material-specific falling debris effects (concrete, stone, bricks, metal, etc) which can be triggered when the corresponding damage zones (the ones we have added to zones.cfg for this mod), will suffer a given amount of damage. Just a few simple 3D particles, not to burden too much our GPU's. There is no hurry on that, but I wish those effects to be ready before we release our next lighthouse. We could dig in RacerBoy's/TheDarkWraith's FX mods for SHIII, IV and 5, to see how he achieved this particular effect. With that done, I don't really see what other feature we could add to our interactive lighthouses. That would likely be the state-of-art, as far as SHIII limits are concerned. What do you think?

No problem, very easy for me. Give me the debris 3D models (which should be non specific to La Plate beacon, so we can use the effect for all lighthouses), and I create the effect for you, with a cloud of grey smoke.