Version 1.08 Beta Now Available

[Julhelm]

In the 68 campaign, the majority of Soviet ships use the outdated Buck Toe and Wolf Paw sonars, with only the Kresta 1 and Moskva having advanced sets.

In the 1980s, Bull Nose is the most common Soviet MF set and comparable to SQS-23 performance. The larger LF sets like Moose Jaw and Horse Jaw are comparable to SQS-26 and modelled as such in the game. Self-noise inhibits sensor performance, so the Soviets are at a major disadvantage here until the advent of quiet boats like the Victor 3 and Sierra.

[SaltmineMinion]

I fiddled around a bit with the toolbar code:

This forces the toolbars on in a stack in 1.08:

//Force all toolbars on in vertical stack to the right of the mini-map
ToolbarsPos=1,1,1
ForceAllToolbarsOn=TRUE
HelmToolbarOffset=331,-200
DiveToolbarOffset=331,-270
SensorToolbarOffset=331,-340


Appears that "ToolbarsPos=1,1,1" makes the toolbars come on again.

[Stuart666]

Early surface ship sonars I found fairly believable, at least after I edited the detection threshold. As soon as you got in the merge of a convoy they were unable to find me, which suggests the core code at being lost in the noise of a surface ship seems to be working. I got close to a Riga and he got a torpedo off, but he couldnt pick me up at more than about 4000 yards. I can buy that.

I do think the submarines seem to be a little too easy for them to pick up say, a 1980s sturgeon. I mean, I had a Juliet pick up my Sturgeon coming in off a sprint and got a torpedo off first. Maybe that is my modding the detection threshold as being responsible, or maybe it isnt. I would expect if the CIA document to be accurate (and there is questionable data in there certainly) you would expect sonar systems of the late 1960s to be about half what US submarines have in detection range. At present, you can see the Trout cheek of the November is nearly the same as the sonar system on the Skipjack. In reality, the November was mainly created for surface attack in mind. Its sonar system was not really up to detecting nuclear submarines, again if polmar is right.

I think envisaging Soviet sonars as first, second or third generation might be the way forward here, in much the same way as the report splits them up.

Again just my view.

[Aktungbby]

SaltmineMinion!

[Julhelm]

All of the sonar data is from Friedman's World Naval Weapon Systems, and cross-checked with a Russian reference work on sonar systems.

Bull Nose MGK-335 is credited with 4-6km range in direct path and 25-30km in convergence zone operation.

Buck Toe was credited with 5000 yard active range and holding passive contact on cavitating submarine out to 120000 yards.

Trout Cheek which equips several Soviet subs is credited with detecting a destroyer making 15-18 knots at 7km at an ownship speed of 15 knots.

Pike Jaw which is the active set of the November was credited with 4000 yard range.

Shark Teeth that equips the Charlies and Victors was considered comparable to the US BQQ-2 in performance.

My conclusion with this data is that the supposed limited effectiveness of Soviet ASW is not due to them having worse sonars sets but mainly attributable to superior silencing on the US boats, up until the 80's when they caught up.

[SaltmineMinion]

Originally Posted by SaltmineMinion

I fiddled around a bit with the toolbar code:

This forces the toolbars on in a stack in 1.08:

//Force all toolbars on in vertical stack to the right of the mini-map
ToolbarsPos=1,1,1
ForceAllToolbarsOn=TRUE
HelmToolbarOffset=331,-200
DiveToolbarOffset=331,-270
SensorToolbarOffset=331,-340


Appears that "ToolbarsPos=1,1,1" makes the toolbars come on again.

Until you go into the tactical map.... Can still make out the edge of the button box in the bottom....

Offsets seem different for different (custom) subs too

Following values make the Toolbars usable on the first stock sub (the LA class Flight I)

//Force all toolbars on in vertical stack to the right of the mini-map
ToolbarsPos=1,1,1
ForceAllToolbarsOn=TRUE
HelmToolbarOffset=331,-100
DiveToolbarOffset=331,-170
SensorToolbarOffset=331,-240

Edit again:

ToolbarsPos=0,0,0 also works for my custom Walrus, keep fiddling around with those numbers till you find something that works.

Offset=x,y where x is deviation to left (negative number) or right (positive) and y is deviation up(+) and down(-).

Hope this helps you folks out a bit.

Edit No.4:

It only worked in single missions.... in campains the bars are all over the place again....

Edit No.5:

Version 1.08b is supposed to fix the HUD issues: http://steamcommunity.com/app/541210...71682628418352

[alves.sobrinho]

I'm having this problem when I'm trying to rearm or repair at port



Is there any way to fix it?

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by alves.sobrinho

I'm having this problem when I'm trying to rearm or repair at port



Is there any way to fix it?

Yes, uninstall the beta.

[alves.sobrinho]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Yes, uninstall the beta.

Problem Solve!

Just go to options and in video reduce Hud Size to 1

[Wiz33]

Looks like another update just got pushed out on steam.

[Aktungbby]

alves.sobrinho!

[Killerfish Games]

Beta Version 1.08b Now Available
This should fix the issues that came up with 1.08.

Fixes
HUD layout only applied once to prevent the toolbars and other panels "wandering" off screen
Noisemaker reload times fixed
Fixed the issue causing the 68 campaign to not load properly
Fixed the Kommunist missing profile graphic

Fixed the Mk45 diving once going active (added weapon settings as per the MK37 sensor suite)
Fixed the MK45 missing weapon graphic
Removed MK45 from the game, commented out weapon reference still in weapons.txt for modders who wish to reactivate it

[Stuart666]

Originally Posted by Julhelm

All of the sonar data is from Friedman's World Naval Weapon Systems, and cross-checked with a Russian reference work on sonar systems.

Bull Nose MGK-335 is credited with 4-6km range in direct path and 25-30km in convergence zone operation.

Buck Toe was credited with 5000 yard active range and holding passive contact on cavitating submarine out to 120000 yards.

Trout Cheek which equips several Soviet subs is credited with detecting a destroyer making 15-18 knots at 7km at an ownship speed of 15 knots.

Pike Jaw which is the active set of the November was credited with 4000 yard range.

Shark Teeth that equips the Charlies and Victors was considered comparable to the US BQQ-2 in performance.

My conclusion with this data is that the supposed limited effectiveness of Soviet ASW is not due to them having worse sonars sets but mainly attributable to superior silencing on the US boats, up until the 80's when they caught up.

From 'The silent deep', it would appear the sonar system on the Victor would be based upon the British Type 2001 sonar from Dreadnought, which was stolen in the Portland spy ring, the capability of which is actually listed in Silent Deep. So the active component you would expect to be pretty good, whether the signal processing was actually good enough to get a similar effect out of the passive side of it is another matter. I mean look at the report, it basically says they have ships in 1972 with sonar as good as the USN, but they dont have the processing capability to make use of it. They dont even seem at the time to have an ability to categorize the sound contacts they DID pick up. Presumably they had to depend on operator ability to do that.


im just looking the figures in the game. It lists sonar in many cases as just as effective as US submarine sonar, when looking at a period report (and the USN had to have a fairly good idea) it just wasn't happening that way in real life. I can entirely believe the Soviet Active gear was as good as Western Equipment, but the passive gear really shouldn't be comparable till the 1980s when they were making use of stolen towed arrays.


I dont think superior silencing can be the only reason. Its notable in many books how noisy Soviet boats were, and how wholly oblivious they were to it. They dont seem to have made any serious effort towards that till the walker spy ring told them how noisy they were. And that suggests to me (and this is pure conjecture admittedly) that if their own sonar systems were not capable of picking them up, they assumed the Americans couldn't either. And its not as if the American boats are that quiet, its quite clear from Polmar that the Victor was as noisy as a Sturgeon class. The Americans seemingly had little difficulty picking them up (and even used their loudness as a way of tracking the rather quieter Yankee's they escorted) but the Soviets were clearly not able to repeat the capability.

Look, im not trying to be contentious. Im just requesting someone, either the devs or one of you fellas who clearly know your stuff, seriously look at the same data there I trawled up and compare it to other references out there. I dont have the USNI reference book, but the suspicion is that they have taken data for US sonar systems and 'assumed' Russian ones of a similar age are comparable. The modern ones might be, but the information on the ones up to the 1970s are they were badly lagging behind. When the CIA was assured that Soviet sonar systems were at best half as effective as US ones in 1972, it seems the Soviet sonar systems are behaving far too effectively in game, particularly at sprint speeds. And as the USN was spending so much time trailing them, they really ought to be the ones to know.


Just my view, and absolutely no disrespect to anyone intended.

[Stuart666]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Stuart666!EXCELLENT NAME! CAPTAIN HADDOCK: WELCOME BACK AFTER A NINE YEAR SILENT RUN!

Thanks Aktunbby

[GeneralGamer]

Originally Posted by Killerfish Games

Beta Version 1.08b Now Available
This should fix the issues that came up with 1.08.

Fixes
HUD layout only applied once to prevent the toolbars and other panels "wandering" off screen
Noisemaker reload times fixed
Fixed the issue causing the 68 campaign to not load properly
Fixed the Kommunist missing profile graphic

Fixed the Mk45 diving once going active (added weapon settings as per the MK37 sensor suite)
Fixed the MK45 missing weapon graphic
Removed MK45 from the game, commented out weapon reference still in weapons.txt for modders who wish to reactivate it

Thanks!

So far all is good and the reload times are back to normal too.