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Old 07-27-2016, 01:14 AM   #91
Onkel Neal
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Originally Posted by PL_Andrev View Post
Ok, already tested in multicrew mode (only two players).

Spotted disadventages:
  • Persicope permanent depth - hide / rise made by mechanist only,
  • Battery level is going highly down (only few minutes of dive possible) and can be charged with... seconds on surface? (very, very fast),
  • Surfaced speed is 30 kts / submerged 16 kts both direction (forward / backward),
  • Reloading torpedo time: approx 1 minute per torpedo,
  • Uncorrected depth of Bay of Puck (90-100m, wiki says that should be 2-6m depth average),
  • Ships are hided by horizon line much much closer than in reality (2000-3000 meters I think),
  • Tutorials are YT movies only (no TDC / gun training for non-SH fans)
  • Starting mission with cruising destroyers? Hmmm... to difficult for non-SH fans...

Adventages:
  • all team have something to do, no boring game for everyone.
  • game looks extremelly fast, but this is extremelly good playable
  • playability, playability and once again playability

It looks like is much more disadventages than adventages, but playability with team-cooperation beats all disadventages. And again: a lot of unrealistic changes matches to team / crew cooperation.
Really good game with bright future!

Good report. Yes, the demo gives a flavor of what is different about our game vs the Silent Hunter series. There is no way we are trying to dismiss SH3/4/5, those will remain great games to play. As you said, we are trying to get you into a U-boat battle with 3 friends/teammates and work as a crew, with a more procedural and social element.

The demo is just an alpha demo, there are a lot of things in it that won't be in the released version. The periscope will work up and down, the Chief will be in the control room, periscope depth will not be set and forget, etc.

The consumables is an interesting question. Of course, the demo has everything working many times faster than real life. We would want to slow it down some, but, here's the important aspect: for consumables to have any impact on the gameplay and player decisions, they must make their impact within 1~3 hours.

Why 1~ 3 hours? Without any hard research to back me up, I have to estimate/predict how long a typical 4 real person co-op game will last. For starters, I am saying 1~3 hours. I have played a lot of MP games, and 1~3 hours is about right in my experience. I realize there are dudes who spend 60 straight hours on their games, but they are in the minority. Let's say once a week, you and your mates can control their personal lives enough to carve out 2 hours to play a mission. The wife says its ok, the kids are next door, and there is no football on the telly. Great! lets play.

You start the game, after 15~30 minutes you have engaged a massive convoy, you and your crew are getting into firing position. You attack, retreat to reload, re-engage but a corvette spots you and forces you down. All this time you are consuming fuel, battery, O2 and compressed air. Now, fuel is probably not ever going to be a problem. Battery and O2 could be, but are you expecting to stay submerged for 20 real life hours? No, probably not. So, in order to make batteries and O2 factor, they have to be sped up some. How much? hard to say at this point, we will do a lot of beta testing to get a good balance.

Right now in the demo, the batteries do drain quickly, and recharge really quickly. Not realistic at all--but--I think the devs are on the right track. Design the consumables so that they do become a factor in the gameplay. And they have to do this within the 1~3 hour allotment that we expect to complete a mission.

We are discussing the ability to include save game functionality. If it would be possible to save the 4 person game and pick up where they left off, that would greatly reduce the scheduling burden. However, it is unknown if that is a do-able thing within the limit of our resources (2 man dev team). Again, my mantra: if first steps are successful, put on your running shoes!


Thanks for your comments, especially the playability, that is key to a successful game and I am glad you enjoyed that!
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Old 07-27-2016, 07:24 AM   #92
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Default Wonderful concept

In my humble opinion, to reflect the realities, a save game is necessary. Perhaps it can be stored on each player machine on exit. On reload the save game files are compared and the latest dated/timed is auto-selected to continue.

I understand you are going to make the game playable by 1-4 players. This would mean the crew could work together in an ongoing mission. If one or more players are missing, the empty slot is taken care of as you would in beginning any game with less than 4 players.

Without the save game, it becomes repetitive, and will have a short life.
If save games are on the player cpu's, replacement players can be used by sharing a save game file with the new player via email.

If one player goes rogue due to an argument, the remaining three players can continue their game without him.
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Old 07-27-2016, 12:02 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Onkel Neal View Post
The consumables is an interesting question. Of course, the demo has everything working many times faster than real life.
If something is going good why to fix it?
It may be a special "arcade" mode - yes, it is unrealistic but well working with multicrew option. I'm afraid that with real conditions the sneaking mode may takes too much of player's patience...

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Originally Posted by Onkel Neal View Post
I have played a lot of MP games, and 1~3 hours is about right in my experience. You start the game, after 15~30 minutes you have engaged a massive convoy, you and your crew are getting into firing position.
I've played hundreds of multiplayer missions (SH3, SH4, DC as anti-sub, DC as some warship at naval battle) and we played 2-hrs missions only, where pursuing and sneaking takes 0.5-1 hrs, shooting takes 0.5 hrs and escort escaping last 0.5 hrs (convoy was too distant).
Now I'm little bit older, have a less free-time and Markulen game style matches too me. OK, maybe sub is too fast, but 5-10 minutes to catch convoy is acceptable for me.

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Originally Posted by raymond6751 View Post
Without the save game, it becomes repetitive, and will have a short life.
This game looks so good, that I think devs may create a playable DD to play versus uboats (one player per ship). With mission editor and free-unit to control this game may be ultimate sub game...
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Old 07-28-2016, 10:21 AM   #94
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I dont recall being this eager for a game to get developed for atleast 10 years.. I just cant wait for this game to come out!

I would also really hope that you try to focus on the PVP bit, as its the concept of 4 people working closely together to achieve success that makes this game so special. This gets boring very quickly unless you;

1) add sooooo much details that its hard to play (hard to hold steady, have to uncover deck-guns before using etc etc.)

2) add the pvp-factor. There will always be someone else outdoing you, and I cant imagine anything cooler than trying to prove yourself versus other real life crews. It would be so rewarding doing 4player PVP in a game like this.

If at all possible, I really hope that you look in to the possibility of adding a playable DD, as this would add so much to the PVP aspect.

I believe it could also draw a lot of players (including myself) looking for a DD simulator(ish) game, that simply doesnt seem to exist (Not one that isnt a 100 years old anyway).

Keep it up! I cant wait!
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Old 07-28-2016, 12:35 PM   #95
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Thanks, we are glad to hear that.
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Old 07-28-2016, 12:53 PM   #96
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Default Welcome aboard!

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Old 07-28-2016, 02:13 PM   #97
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A Warm Welcome To The Subsim Community > klingenj
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Old 07-28-2016, 03:47 PM   #98
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If at all possible, I really hope that you look in to the possibility of adding a playable DD, as this would add so much to the PVP aspect.

I believe it could also draw a lot of players (including myself) looking for a DD simulator(ish) game, that simply doesnt seem to exist (Not one that isnt a 100 years old anyway).
My "best" DD game at Destroyer Command:

Escorted group of US carriers at dark night, left side. Radar contact: japanese sub contact on right! Engine max power, turn hard right... and hit critically directly to carrier.
My DD sank fast...
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Old 07-29-2016, 07:00 AM   #99
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Just found this project - keep up the good work! :-)

You should try to use nautical units intead of metric for distance measurments on the map... (NM, Knots)
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Old 07-29-2016, 09:03 AM   #100
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Good suggestion, thanks.
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Old 07-29-2016, 10:18 AM   #101
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A Warm Welcome To The Subsim Community > oskich
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Old 07-29-2016, 10:40 AM   #102
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Old 07-30-2016, 06:25 AM   #103
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Default Exciting on many levels

I think this project is exciting on many levels. To have a sub sim built by people who have genuine passion and love for the genre, and without having to deal with the commercial pressures applied by a company with a 25 man Dev team,is awesome. I'm also very pleased for Neal. He has invested so much financially and emotionally into subsim over the years, that to get to be a part of creating something like this is wonderful to see.
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Old 07-30-2016, 07:26 AM   #104
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I'm also very pleased for Neal. He has invested so much financially and emotionally into subsim over the years, that to get to be a part of creating something like this is wonderful to see.
When I read about this - and realized he actually moved to Sweden to follow up on this project - that's when I was completely sold.
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Old 07-30-2016, 10:14 AM   #105
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As a guy much more interested in the American submarines than the German ones, I wish this were about American boats. But realistically, if this is to be a success, it must succeed in the European market. That means U-boats.

It's great to see Neal put his money and his body where his mouth is. It's great to see a team of programmers whose main interest is submarines, not FPV shooters.

I love the idea of a cooperative game where players take stations in the submarine to perform those specific tasks. I think the key to making that happen is whether the guy with an hour to burn can jump to the sonar station of a boat already in action without disrupting the play of the other characters already there, and whether they can jump back out after they run out of time without disrupting the other guys playing in that boat.

Guys with no life have to integrate in a positive way with guys who steal an hour from an otherwise busy life, popping in and out of the game. Both sets have to be equally happy to play.

Looks like that's the direction you're headed! I hope you sell lots of games that people are dedicated to for ten years, and that you use some of the profits to produce a game about American submarines.
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