[TEC] - Solved !!!! Lost Radar Contacts When Sub Heading South (90-270)

[letterboy1]

Thanks to all who are contributing to this work in progress.

[Mraah]

Originally Posted by Jace11

Its not perfect...

There are still problems.

Not perfect is perfect

As a former air defense radar operator and currently an air traffic controller I can tell you radar is very strange. Only trained operators can distiguish between garbage, birds, ships, aircraft, tractor trailers ... Nothing like watching 18 wheeler tractor trailers on a radar that's designed for aircraft !!!!

Here's a good Radar Tutorial link I found on the web, some parts are in German :

http://www.radartutorial.eu/index.en.html

Note:
Side by side comparison of Ducimus' drawing and a drawing of the isotropic radiation from above link :

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by Jace11

Ok, im kinda finished with this for now... All I wanted to do originally was fix the SD not working.

http://www.speedyshare.com/495206880.html

This is my *cough* final version of the sensors file unless anything else comes up.

I have increased the blind angle of the SD to 2.5 degrees to avoid ships getting caught in the beam in bad weather when the sub is pitching.

Sorry Jace !

I erased all my campaign files, just started at 1941, picked up a Porpoise, upgrade an SD, i am sure i have nothing more related to radar only an SD.

Your file still catching ships, i live with this, and.... the bad, no detect planes when your sub is heading south, 090-270.

Have you the same problem or it is me

We are at start point...

[Mraah]

Originally Posted by Redwine

Sorry Jace !

I erase all my campaign files, just start at 1941, pick up a Porpoise, upgrade an SD, i am sure i have nothing more related to radar only an SD.

Your file still catching ships, i live with this, and.... the bad, no detect planes when your sub is heading south, 090-270.

Have you the same problem or it is me

Redwine,

I haven't tried it yet (working mid shift tonight .. need sleep). Reset the ElevationMax to 181 and have another shot. Appears ElevationMax might need to fall between 181-360 . Leave the ElevationMin at 2.5 .

[Jace11]

Hmmm... I give up..

In my test mission, everything works as advertised... mostly...

It is strange that things work one way in one mission and not in another..

Then I enter a campaign, and I get the same.. ships, not all the time, but sometimes...

TopCat reported this, you have reported this and now I see it. The problem is when you think you found a fix, you havent!!!!

Could it be time compression - realistic sensors should be on too maybe..

Could be anything..

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by Mraah

Redwine,

I haven't tried it yet (working mid shift tonight .. need sleep). Reset the ElevationMax to 181 and have another shot. Appears ElevationMax might need to fall between 181-360 . Leave the ElevationMin at 2.5 .

Yes, i note that, with min/max 0-360, the non contacts when pointin south seems to be fixed.
You have contacts disregarding your heading.

But i dont try a setting as 2.5 for min.

I will try.... sleep well !!

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by Jace11

Hmmm... I give up..

In my test mission, everything works as advertised... mostly...

It is strange that things work one way in one mission and not in another..

Then I enter a campaign, and I get the same.. ships, not all the time, but sometimes...

TopCat reported this, you have reported this and now I see it. The problem is when you think you found a fix, you havent!!!!

Could it be time compression - realistic sensors should be on too maybe..

Could be anything..

I was happy with your announce, but sorry ... :hmm:

One reccomend, just take the job to start a new campaing every tes, anoying, but may be save files can bring problems.


I arrive to a point where all works fine, except by the SD still catching ships.

May bewe need to live with this issue...

Still on job...

[Redwine]

Well ... still testing and :


Some SJ radars had the same problem than the SD radar, not contacts when your sub heading point to south 090-270....

Check S-18, S-42 subs into stock missions as Battle of Fillipines

I will attempt to made same changes than into SD....

[kakemann]

Your testing is much appreciated!

[Mraah]

Originally Posted by Redwine

Well ... still testing and :


Some SJ radars had the same problem than the SD radar, not contacts when your sub heading point to south 090-270....

Check S-18, S-42 subs into stock missions as Battle of Fillipines

I will attempt to made same changes than into SD....

Before I left home I looked at Ducimus' file and I thought he covered all the SJ to read ElevationMax=181. Check your file, I know I've gotten lost in the tweak and overlooked a change now and again.

I had another intesting idea. From earlier tests I noted that when you increase MaxRange you also increase the distance that the contact appears. I'm thinking that the unknown angle that Ducimus can't find might actually be the Cotangent of MaxHeight divided by Maxrange. When I get home in 7 hr's I'll try the default SH4 v1.2 setting with a new Maxrange of 900,000 meters. Very interesting.:hmm:

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by Mraah

Before I left home I looked at Ducimus' file and I thought he covered all the SJ to read ElevationMax=181. Check your file, I know I've gotten lost in the tweak and overlooked a change now and again.

Yes i done, not 181, instead 360, almost for test.
I forgot in the fisrt tweaks of this topocs we change both SD and SJ.
I concentrate into SD and forget the SJ.

The question is ...why we need to pass beyond 180 ??

Originally Posted by Mraah

I had another intesting idea. From earlier tests I noted that when you increase MaxRange you also increase the distance that the contact appears. I'm thinking that the unknown angle that Ducimus can't find might actually be the Cotangent of MaxHeight divided by Maxrange. When I get home in 7 hr's I'll try the default SH4 v1.2 setting with a new Maxrange of 900,000 meters. Very interesting.:hmm:

Yes is strange, if the angles works correct, and the planes incoming at same altitude, increasing the range will no must to have effect, the min angle boundary must to let them into the shadow zone even when you increase the max range... :hmm:

[Jace11]

Node height affects it too. because the P-Class rides out the water so much, I lowered it by modding the surfaced depth in the sim file. That has affected radar reception. While other classes are fine, my P-class no longer picks up SD contacts at 2.5/177.5...

Changing some variables makes this process boat specific.

Thats why some of my tests were screwy. I still think raising the elevation to a cone is the best way to do it. I may need to move some sensor nodes on my boats though. I will test with early Gato from now on, as the P-Class node is too low after I lowered the boat.

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by Jace11

Node height affects it too. because the P-Class rides out the water so much, I lowered it by modding the surfaced depth in the sim file. That has affected radar reception. While other classes are fine, my P-class no longer picks up SD contacts at 2.5/177.5...

Try rising up 177.5 beyond 180, in example 181 or more... contacts come back sure.

[Ducimus]

I did a little testing of my own and as usual came up with nothing conclusive.

A couple observations:

ElevationMin =0
ElevationMax=360

I noticed alot of SH3 radars constructed simularly. Infact, id encourge anyone to examine SH3's radar's for a point of comparision since they're a known entity. Anyway, improving this to encompass all 360 degrees seems to eliminate any chance of a blind spot based on direction of travel and nothing else. I left my files at 359/181, to be safe, but if theres any harm in changing it to 0/360 im not seeing it.


Another thign i noticed was that after decreasing the MinSensorHeight from 0.2 to 0, a MinHeight change from 8.3 to 9 was still able to pick up aircraft on a Gato. If i remember correctly, before, 9M min height broke air contacts. Hence the 8.3 settings. Increasing it past 9, it no longer worked. I had a halfassed idea to try a minSensorheight of -0.2 and increasing the min height to 10, just to see if it would work. Probably would, but we'd be back to the same problem as before. But, its as if this sucker is acting as an umbrella, with the minSensorHeight being the very bottom edge of that umprella.


Changing SD to RWR.
Ive tried again, twice, two different ways. Not working.



At this point im ready to just reduce SD radar to a distance of like 10 meters so it no longer detects anything at all, and then increase SJ radar geomety so it picks up everything. Because at least then i could turn the bugger off when returning to port instead of getting spammed by all the contacts. With the SD radar behaving the way it is, and as so far being unable to find a solution to make it work as advertised, there really isnt much of a point in having it in the game in my opinion.

[shad43]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

At this point im ready to just reduce SD radar to a distance of like 10 meters so it no longer detects anything at all, and then increase SJ radar geomety so it picks up everything. Because at least then i could turn the bugger off when returning to port instead of getting spammed by all the contacts. With the SD radar behaving the way it is, and as so far being unable to find a solution to make it work as advertised, there really isnt much of a point in having it in the game in my opinion.

I'll buy that