How Noisy is a Thypoon Class Sub

Mocbo · 01-13-06, 05:13 PM

In the Lwami Mod the Thypoon has the SL of 68.
Other Subs like the LA or the Akula a much qieter.
The LA has 62 than the Imp LA has 58. Then the Seawolf has 55
The entire Akulas and a large Part of the other russian Subs are quiter.
Then the Foxtrot , an OLD DIESEL SUB has 69 !!
The Typoon is not noisy as a Diesel Sub!!

Whats going on?
What is Real. Is the Typoon really so noisy and not the qiet, very difficult do detect ,surprising nuclear Boomer Beast of the Ocean??

Greetings

moc

TLAM Strike · 01-13-06, 05:37 PM

The flownoise on something that big makes it noisy. Also twin screw boats are always noisyer than compairable ones with a single screw, plus factor in she has twin reactors.

BTW even old Diesels are still quiet boats, the old GUPPYs back in the late 70's just before they were retired could fool a top of the line ASW Frigate or MPA on a good day.

Mocbo · 01-13-06, 06:08 PM

That a large 2 Screw Sub is noisier than a Single Screw Sub is logical. The Oscar has the Same Problem i think.... because is nearly the same kind of Construction.

What is then Real on The Mysterie that the Boat is hard to detectable?

Nothing?

Why have all West SSN Skippers Respect from that Behemoth?

Greetings

Moc

XabbaRus · 01-13-06, 06:59 PM

Lets put it this way, a Typhoon is as noisy as a Delta IV interms of plant noise, but flow noise is high.

Fraid I can't reveal my source but they are reliable.

TLAM Strike · 01-13-06, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Lets put it this way, a Typhoon is as noisy as a Delta IV interms of plant noise, but flow noise is high.

Fraid I can't reveal my source but they are reliable.

Would that source be 'Common Sense'? Typhoons are two Delta's slapped together so logically they would have the same plant noise but with twice the flow noise.

Hobnail · 01-13-06, 08:16 PM

I mean....look at the size of it's straight edged fin! That's going to cause some major flow noise especially when maneuvering.

Deathblow · 01-13-06, 09:47 PM

You might find this interesting. Good tables, if you believe their estimates as legit. IIRC the Typhoon is the project 941.

http://www.fas.org/spp/eprint/snf03222.htm
http://www.fas.org/spp/eprint/snf03221.htm

Mocbo · 01-14-06, 08:29 AM

Very Interesting.

Thanks for the Addition

Greetings

Moc

Deathblow · 01-14-06, 09:07 AM

What I found interesting is the stark difference between the detection ranges of open ocean versus the detection ranges of shallow water. They estimate that in open ocean the Typhoon could be detected at 70nm where as in shallow water those ranges would be about 10nm.

I can imagine their estimates for a quiet diesel in shallow water would be... :hmm:

I think the tricky thing in modeling the sound levels in DW is that we can't model the flow noise seperate from the narrowband noise. We can only model the noise level linearly with speed, not stepwise.

LuftWolf · 01-14-06, 04:20 PM

The Ocean ranges would probably be taking into account the most favorable accoustic conditions of the submarine being detected in a second or possibly even third convergence zone.

Kapitan · 01-15-06, 10:20 AM

typhoon is quite noisey noiser than most the hull form is not that hydrodynamic so makes a fair noise also the screws give it away too.

typhoon is over 20 years old the oldest TK208 approaching 30 russia is replacing all submarines with the newer borey class which according to america analysts could be as quiet as the ohio's

typhoon is noisey hence why it does not go out mid atlantic instead under ice where it can mask some of its noise, but still it was a good invention at the time even if it was deemed failure by russians .

24 were to be built to counter americas 24 ohios (cut to 18 after a bit and cut again now)
but only 6 made it to sea and one was broken up due to the collapse of the soviet union.

also the kirov was to be built in numbers 12 were to be built only 4 made it to sea and the fitfh becomeing extended and turned into admiral kuznetsov, one remains active 3 reserve pending

Kazuaki Shimazaki II · 01-15-06, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

The Ocean ranges would probably be taking into account the most favorable accoustic conditions of the submarine being detected in a second or possibly even third convergence zone.

Yeah, just look at the 1000km detects - major ducting.

On the topic, IIRC, the current Database has it set up that the Typhoon is considered a "modern SSBN (+15)" while the Akula is +21.

Would it be more realistic to set things up so the Typhoon has a lower starting point than it does now (say 63-65, making it roughly comparable to a Akula I) but a higher rampup (say +25 or even +30?)

After all, if the main noise source on the Typhoon is flow, then it'd become a huge problem only at higher speeds. At low speeds, the flow noise problem will be mostly cut and you may even be able to get rid of the noise of an extra reactor by shutting it down - it won't be the first Russkie that tried to reduce noise by cutting a reactor and its screw.

Kapitan · 01-15-06, 10:43 AM

typhoon was built in 1979 the akula attacks 1984 big diffrence 5 years

Kazuaki Shimazaki II · 01-15-06, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapitain

typhoon was built in 1979 the akula attacks 1984 big diffrence 5 years

In that case 68 is not a bad noise level - it is equivalent to the contemporary Victor III.

LuftWolf · 01-15-06, 02:36 PM

They are really of a different generation.

Also, the thrusts for SSBN's take into account the fact that they only go about 25kts max speed, so naturally the speed increase will be a bit less for them over subs that go over 30kts.

I believe according to the data that Amizaur has the flow noise REALLY gets going above 25kts, if I remember correctly. :hmm:

01-13-06, 05:13 PM	#1
Mocbo Watch Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 23 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	How Noisy is a Thypoon Class Sub In the Lwami Mod the Thypoon has the SL of 68. Other Subs like the LA or the Akula a much qieter. The LA has 62 than the Imp LA has 58. Then the Seawolf has 55 The entire Akulas and a large Part of the other russian Subs are quiter. Then the Foxtrot , an OLD DIESEL SUB has 69 !! The Typoon is not noisy as a Diesel Sub!! Whats going on? What is Real. Is the Typoon really so noisy and not the qiet, very difficult do detect ,surprising nuclear Boomer Beast of the Ocean?? Greetings moc

01-13-06, 05:37 PM	#2
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	The flownoise on something that big makes it noisy. Also twin screw boats are always noisyer than compairable ones with a single screw, plus factor in she has twin reactors. BTW even old Diesels are still quiet boats, the old GUPPYs back in the late 70's just before they were retired could fool a top of the line ASW Frigate or MPA on a good day. __________________

01-13-06, 06:59 PM	#4
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Lets put it this way, a Typhoon is as noisy as a Delta IV interms of plant noise, but flow noise is high. Fraid I can't reveal my source but they are reliable. __________________

01-13-06, 08:16 PM	#6
Hobnail Bosun Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 67 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I mean....look at the size of it's straight edged fin! That's going to cause some major flow noise especially when maneuvering. __________________ My TMA is like a drunk game of \"Pin the Tail on the Donkey\" Be kind.

01-14-06, 04:20 PM	#10
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	The Ocean ranges would probably be taking into account the most favorable accoustic conditions of the submarine being detected in a second or possibly even third convergence zone. __________________ LW

01-13-06, 06:08 PM	#3
Mocbo Watch Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 23 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	That a large 2 Screw Sub is noisier than a Single Screw Sub is logical. The Oscar has the Same Problem i think.... because is nearly the same kind of Construction. What is then Real on The Mysterie that the Boat is hard to detectable? Nothing? Why have all West SSN Skippers Respect from that Behemoth? Greetings Moc

01-13-06, 09:47 PM	#7
Deathblow Captain Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 518 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	You might find this interesting. Good tables, if you believe their estimates as legit. IIRC the Typhoon is the project 941. http://www.fas.org/spp/eprint/snf03222.htm http://www.fas.org/spp/eprint/snf03221.htm

01-14-06, 08:29 AM	#8
Mocbo Watch Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 23 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Very Interesting. Thanks for the Addition Greetings Moc

01-14-06, 09:07 AM	#9
Deathblow Captain Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 518 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	What I found interesting is the stark difference between the detection ranges of open ocean versus the detection ranges of shallow water. They estimate that in open ocean the Typhoon could be detected at 70nm where as in shallow water those ranges would be about 10nm. I can imagine their estimates for a quiet diesel in shallow water would be... :hmm: I think the tricky thing in modeling the sound levels in DW is that we can't model the flow noise seperate from the narrowband noise. We can only model the noise level linearly with speed, not stepwise.

01-15-06, 10:20 AM	#11
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,090 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 7	typhoon is quite noisey noiser than most the hull form is not that hydrodynamic so makes a fair noise also the screws give it away too. typhoon is over 20 years old the oldest TK208 approaching 30 russia is replacing all submarines with the newer borey class which according to america analysts could be as quiet as the ohio's typhoon is noisey hence why it does not go out mid atlantic instead under ice where it can mask some of its noise, but still it was a good invention at the time even if it was deemed failure by russians . 24 were to be built to counter americas 24 ohios (cut to 18 after a bit and cut again now) but only 6 made it to sea and one was broken up due to the collapse of the soviet union. also the kirov was to be built in numbers 12 were to be built only 4 made it to sea and the fitfh becomeing extended and turned into admiral kuznetsov, one remains active 3 reserve pending __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

01-15-06, 10:43 AM	#13
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,090 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 7	typhoon was built in 1979 the akula attacks 1984 big diffrence 5 years __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

01-15-06, 02:36 PM	#15
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	They are really of a different generation. Also, the thrusts for SSBN's take into account the fact that they only go about 25kts max speed, so naturally the speed increase will be a bit less for them over subs that go over 30kts. I believe according to the data that Amizaur has the flow noise REALLY gets going above 25kts, if I remember correctly. :hmm: __________________ LW