Type XXI simulation experience

[padi]

Hi community,

I'm currently in the planning and early 3D-modelling stage of a simulation of the german Type XXI submarine in the Battle of the Atlantic.
The aim is to have a realistic simulation of this revolutionary submarine in which every room could be entered and every machine could be operated.
This project could eventually expand to other submarine types, commandable ships and maybe even aircrafts to span the full length of the war, but that is only a far away dream.

To turn this into a real simulation game about the longest battle of the entire war it needs mechanics and a gameplay purpose for the player. For this I'm turning to the community and ask what wishes there are for features in this project. Following are possible features that got to mind, some of them are unsuitable for the Type XXI sim and only make sense after early war subs like the Type I, Type II, Type VII or Type IX are added.

- Realistic ASW with authentic ASDIC, Depthcharges, Hedgehog and Squid for late war ASW
- ASDIC less capable in shallow waters
- Thermal layers that make detection harder
- Interactive submarine with every system useable
- Useable Enigma in which incoming messages from the BDU have to be decrypted
- Different effectiveness of DCs corresponding with the pressure in greater depths
- Logbook where events like sinkings have to be written down to be confirmed or opposed of after the patrol
- ASDIC having minimum effective range and a realistic cone of effectiveness so on longer distances in shallow depth the sub is undetectable
- Crew on the sub
- Training flotilla with crew training according to historic regulations
- Prize warfare
- Patrols like in Silent Hunter
- Navigating by the Stars
- Damaged ships as statistic, not just sunken ones
- Walk through the bunkers and experience bomber attacks in them
- Multiplayer on the same sub/ship/plane or TvT sub vs. escort
- Sabotage on the sub

I have read lots of wishes in the past but these are the most often written wishes as well as some of my personal favorites which I kept in my mind.
Add any wishes you want so we have a complete list of all wanted features.

The roadmap at the moment is that I continue 3D-modeling the Type XXI submarine while simultaneously increasing my abilities in working with Unreal Engine and planning the game. After planning I decide on the most critical features of the game which then will get prototyped and tested until they work as intended.
This approach is repeated until all the core mechanics are implemented and are working as intended together.

As I'm a first time solo game developer this project will take a long time to develop but as it is a passion project it will always continue being developed until it is finished...

If you want to support the project feel free to reach out. I'm happy about every support that I could get be it feature suggestions, modeling, research help or knowledge in working with Unreal.

[Hooston]

I think you are being over ambitious. Think how many manhours goes into successful quality simulation games like DCS, or even mods to existing games like those you see here.
I recommend you go take a look at the "crush depth" game. It looks beautiful, but after much expenditure of time and money seems to me to have stalled at the tech demo stage. I'd be interested in the opinions of others as to where that project is going.

Have you considered talking to the developers of the Wolfpack game and posting on the forum ? https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=277

[padi]

Originally Posted by Hooston

I think you are being over ambitious. Think how many manhours goes into successful quality simulation games like DCS, or even mods to existing games like those you see here.
I recommend you go take a look at the "crush depth" game. It looks beautiful, but after much expenditure of time and money seems to me to have stalled at the tech demo stage. I'd be interested in the opinions of others as to where that project is going.

Have you considered talking to the developers of the Wolfpack game and posting on the forum ? https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=277

From my view the problem with Crush Depth was that they increased the realism way more than I would ever want it for my project and they develop everything for MP as the sim is too performance intensive for a single machine...

I didn't reach out to Wolfpack as according to Steam reviews the game is near death.

All the listed Features are possibilities in the planning stage. I don't know by now which of them will be implemented.

The highest priority is on the Type XXI virtual museum, everything else evolves from there...

I built it section by section with the first rooms already having their interior walls installed.
It will be a long way but as written before it is a passion project to have a walkable Type XXI so that will be accomplished!

[Hooston]

Well, you have some idea what is involved and have set yourself an achievable first goal. Good luck.

I've always thought the best subsim would be creeping around a darkened room with an old fashioned steel dustbin on your head looking through a tiny eyehole, trying to avoid someone else wearing a blindfold and wielding a cricket bat.
SH3 has hundreds of things wrong with it, and after a while you tend to forget the thousands of things right with it that are why we are still playing a 20 year old game.
For me the things that really let SH3 down late war are:

• No shallow water (and cold water) acoustics
• Much too effective homing torpedoes
• Aircraft equipment - mk24 mine and sonobouys
• Escort AI - no equipment or tactics against GNATs, no group tactics, no patience

Given the above the type XXI in SH3 might as well be a flying saucer Fortunately the game kills you in 1943 or early 1944 so this doesn't matter greatly.

[les green01]

Taking realistic and xxi sub don't really shive too good only what 4 was combat ready and only 2 went on patrol and never fire a shot

[padi]

Originally Posted by les green01

Taking realistic and xxi sub don't really shive too good only what 4 was combat ready and only 2 went on patrol and never fire a shot

That is correct. I still consider them as accurate to the time as the first sea trials and crew training started in 1944 so it isn‘t unrealistic having them in action in 1945.
Also they are so revolutionary that I want them to be completely accessible and walkable. That was the starting point of this project, everything else evolves from that.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Hooston

Well, you have some idea what is involved and have set yourself an achievable first goal. Good luck.

I've always thought the best subsim would be creeping around a darkened room with an old fashioned steel dustbin on your head looking through a tiny eyehole, trying to avoid someone else wearing a blindfold and wielding a cricket bat.
SH3 has hundreds of things wrong with it, and after a while you tend to forget the thousands of things right with it that are why we are still playing a 20 year old game.
For me the things that really let SH3 down late war are:

• No shallow water (and cold water) acoustics
• Much too effective homing torpedoes
• Aircraft equipment - mk24 mine and sonobouys
• Escort AI - no equipment or tactics against GNATs, no group tactics, no patience

Given the above the type XXI in SH3 might as well be a flying saucer Fortunately the game kills you in 1943 or early 1944 so this doesn't matter greatly.

Fwiw, Stiebler made a mk24 mod that works well.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by padi

I didn't reach out to Wolfpack as according to Steam reviews the game is near death.

“Steam Reviews” whatever that means are wrong, Wolfpack is alive and doing well.

There is a strong and active player community. Hundreds of subsim members have taken the Wolfpack academy tests.

Wolfpack has been continually worked on since release. A new Beta was released recently. The interior of the Type VIIc U-Boat is now modeled in great accuracy.

Personally, I would reach out to the team and see if you can integrate your work with theirs rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.

[Aktungbby]

That's for sure! So many trainees complering exams, incl. myself, is uncanny and the predominantly new member's names are rather remarkable and imaginatively witty to boot.

[ErdiFerenc]

Originally Posted by padi

That is correct. I still consider them as accurate to the time as the first sea trials and crew training started in 1944 so it isn‘t unrealistic having them in action in 1945.
Also they are so revolutionary that I want them to be completely accessible and walkable. That was the starting point of this project, everything else evolves from that.

Hi there!

I am rooting for your project, cause I really like the XXI, because it was so far ahead of it's time.
Though for a single person to simulate the whole thing, even if we ignore the amount of research it would require, it would be a very long and challenging project that requires tons of discipline, which I don't doubt you have. This forum already proved to me that there are people with tremendous amounts of discipline, see the Wolves of the Kaiser project.

What I think is that you should drop the idea of 100% realism, at least regarding the end of war in May 1945. I am a fan of realism as well, but compormises have to be made in order to make a game/simulation playable and enjoyable. See DCS that you mentioned above. Most of the modules, especially the modern ones never took part in any real conflict, but nobody would say DCS is not realistic.

What I would do in your place is to either move release of the type XXI to 1943 or so, or to delay the end of the war with a few years.

But it is just suggestion, you know your thing.

Good luck with it!

[padi]

Originally Posted by ErdiFerenc

What I would do in your place is to either move release of the type XXI to 1943 or so, or to delay the end of the war with a few years.

But it is just suggestion, you know your thing.

Thanks for the tips.
Having the Type XXI in the middle or the beginning of 1944 could be somewhat realistic if we assume the damaging of finished boats by bombs didn‘t happen…
I will try to have the model of the boat first then all the mechanics will be implemented. In this way the first step of a digital museum will succeed.
I know that this will be a long project but I hope that with continuos advances sometime in the future additional developers will join the project.