I'm missing something ... (Manual Targetting)

-Danse- · 08-08-08, 02:24 PM

It could be a brain, but ...

Newcomer to U-boats here, so of course I chose to immidiately play on 100% realism, as you do.

Ok, trigonometry, fine. No problem with that.

How, oh how do you guys figure out the range to target? With the Fleet boats, the target can be tracked by pinging it, noting the bearing and plotting a course on the map with pretty shocking accuracy. Using that plot I can get ahead of them, set up a 90° ambush and wallop, dead. I'm ok there, however I'm a big Das Boot fan, and the U-Boat is where I wanna be. Ideally I want to do the same with the German sub.

The U-Boats, as far as I can tell, don't have sonar, or any way to fix range. (Other than the Mast height, TDC method, which requires quite close visual distance.)

Or do they? They can ping to the bottom of the ocean to check ocean floor depth. Is it hidden somewhere?

So, for you guys who go manual all the way and love to plot trajectories and bearings and all that wonderful stuff, how do you range the target outside of visual range?

Help out a failing skipper, please!

Sledgehammer427 · 08-08-08, 03:16 PM

i for one, believe you don't need to have the range of target outside of visual range....
but i believe that in the hydrophone operators room, with the wheel. you can find a button on the lower left, near the wheel that you use to point the sonar, it should have a label... "sende" if its not there you do not have sonar equipped, other than that, i dunno what to say

oh...and welcome! im sure you will like it here

Pisces · 08-08-08, 05:11 PM

Isn't there a watchofficer reporting range/bearing as in sh3 (when on the surface)?

-Danse- · 08-08-08, 05:57 PM

Ok, since posting I've wandered down towards the west coast of Australia.

I picked up quite a juicy target, in a T3 Tanker all on its lonesome.
For a target that size, you are bang on, Sledge. Just spent 2 hours tracking his progress toward me, setting up a 90° attack and hit with 4 of 4 fish. Nice and easy.

I've never enjoyed Trigonometry so much. (11000T, thank you.)

Not sure I'd be quick enough with the calculations for a small/fast target, but practice I guess will help to speed things up.

I still can't help wondering about night attacks though. This was in broad daylight, while submerged. My accuracy using the recognition manual for range is going to be wildly innaccurate at night.

How do you guys go on at night?

Pisces: Not sure. Haven't seen as such, and if there is I'm sure it will be limited to visual range. I'll check that out.

Thanks for the responses guys. I've found loads of useful info here so far just trawling the boards while I should have been working. The expression on co-workers faces is priceless when they ask what you are doing, and you calmly anwser, "Learning how to torpedo a moving target through math."

Pisces · 08-08-08, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Danse-

Pisces: Not sure. Haven't seen as such, and if there is I'm sure it will be limited to visual range. I'll check that out.

Yes, but that doesn't have to be a problem. You just have to stay out far enough not to be detected.

LeeVanSpliff · 08-09-08, 05:09 AM

Welcome about Danse!

In Fleet Boats I take my data from my radar and turn it into a pretty little X in the map.

In U-Boat Missions I just end up with a lot of "something in that direction" lines. Usually I can use them to get an idea about how the target is traveling, but it's not as neat and precise as the radar method.

-Danse- · 08-09-08, 08:22 AM

I found very much the same last night, LeeVanSpliff. I had a load of marked contacts in a general area, with a general heading. Both gradually got more accurate as he came nearer until I could nail him down toward the end.
I have to admit, all four fish hit in a very tight area, but this was broad daylight.

Hopefully will get to try out a night attack sometime today, and I'll see how I go on with that. Lack of visibility is going to make my range estimates a bit wild I think. Will have to see.

The manual targetting is the most fun I've had for ages, and I have SubSim to thank for that. I'd never even thought of trying it until I came here.

One thing which bugs me though, and is slightly related: The manual mentions changing the name of marks on the map, and adding comments up to 50+ characters long. Is this possible? Be damned if I can find a way to do it.

Again, thanks for the responses guys. Having a ball here.

-Danse- · 08-09-08, 11:06 AM

Aha, nm, found the answer. Other threads have mentioned that altering map markers doesn't appear to have been implemented.

Guess that explains why I can't find it.

Rockin Robbins · 08-09-08, 12:04 PM

Welcome Danse! Yes, we could revolutionize secondary schooling by teaching all high school trigonometry in a submarine simulator. Then all the students could say, "Trig is a blast!"

Sailor Steve · 08-09-08, 12:42 PM

Something you may or may not find useful, but it's always good to have more tools:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116572

-Danse- · 08-10-08, 01:48 PM

Thanks Sailor Steve. Downloaded. Looks like a solid tool.

prince_vlad · 08-15-08, 06:17 AM

When I played for the first time SH3 (what I say here goes for SH4 as well)I wanted to be "realistic" 100% like you want...but things didn't get so fun as I thought they would. As I know, hope I'm not wrong, getting the distance EXACTLY to target with radar IN GAME it's not possible.I don't recall looking at radar (if it was installed one) or listening the officers reports and hearing the DISTANCE to the target...The radar gives you a relatively bearing position (because the target is on the move!) and when it's night....GOOD BY finding the exact distance...So if you wanna go real with TDC you have to guess the distance and practice a lot and then experience would bring you the reward of guessing the distances....I presume.In manual it is said that you can calculate the distance to target in two modes:
1.identifying the type of ship and then looking for hights which helps to calculate the distance to it
2.measuring yourself the hight of the ship looking through persicope and inputing the data result into calculating the distance..
Hope I'm not wrong....
Anyway...good luck!

Rockin Robbins · 08-15-08, 08:44 AM

Why don't you check out my very buried U-Boat Fast-90 tutorial in the Advanced TDC/PK thread? No video yet, but I think the instructions will get you started. The Dick O'Kane technique in the same post works for U-Boats too.

The beauty of these two techniques is that range doesn't matter one bit in setting up your shot. You can even leave the range set to zero if you want. Don't try them unless you want to be deadly and have a lot of fun doing it.

08-08-08, 02:24 PM	#1
-Danse- Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 14 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	I'm missing something ... (Manual Targetting) It could be a brain, but ... Newcomer to U-boats here, so of course I chose to immidiately play on 100% realism, as you do. Ok, trigonometry, fine. No problem with that. How, oh how do you guys figure out the range to target? With the Fleet boats, the target can be tracked by pinging it, noting the bearing and plotting a course on the map with pretty shocking accuracy. Using that plot I can get ahead of them, set up a 90° ambush and wallop, dead. I'm ok there, however I'm a big Das Boot fan, and the U-Boat is where I wanna be. Ideally I want to do the same with the German sub. The U-Boats, as far as I can tell, don't have sonar, or any way to fix range. (Other than the Mast height, TDC method, which requires quite close visual distance.) Or do they? They can ping to the bottom of the ocean to check ocean floor depth. Is it hidden somewhere? So, for you guys who go manual all the way and love to plot trajectories and bearings and all that wonderful stuff, how do you range the target outside of visual range? Help out a failing skipper, please!

08-08-08, 03:16 PM	#2
Sledgehammer427 PacWagon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Drinking coffee and staring at trees in Massachusetts Posts: 2,901 Downloads: 280 Uploads: 0	i for one, believe you don't need to have the range of target outside of visual range.... but i believe that in the hydrophone operators room, with the wheel. you can find a button on the lower left, near the wheel that you use to point the sonar, it should have a label... "sende" if its not there you do not have sonar equipped, other than that, i dunno what to say oh...and welcome! im sure you will like it here __________________ Cold Waters Voice Crew - Fire Control Officer Cmdr O. Myers - C/O USS Nautilus (SS-168) 114,000 tons sunk - 4 Spec Ops completed V-boat Nutcase - Need supplies? Japanese garrison on a small island in the way? Just give us a call! D4C!

08-08-08, 05:57 PM	#4
-Danse- Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 14 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Ok, since posting I've wandered down towards the west coast of Australia. I picked up quite a juicy target, in a T3 Tanker all on its lonesome. For a target that size, you are bang on, Sledge. Just spent 2 hours tracking his progress toward me, setting up a 90° attack and hit with 4 of 4 fish. Nice and easy. I've never enjoyed Trigonometry so much. (11000T, thank you.) Not sure I'd be quick enough with the calculations for a small/fast target, but practice I guess will help to speed things up. I still can't help wondering about night attacks though. This was in broad daylight, while submerged. My accuracy using the recognition manual for range is going to be wildly innaccurate at night. How do you guys go on at night? Pisces: Not sure. Haven't seen as such, and if there is I'm sure it will be limited to visual range. I'll check that out. Thanks for the responses guys. I've found loads of useful info here so far just trawling the boards while I should have been working. The expression on co-workers faces is priceless when they ask what you are doing, and you calmly anwser, "Learning how to torpedo a moving target through math." Last edited by -Danse-; 08-08-08 at 06:16 PM.

08-09-08, 05:09 AM	#6
LeeVanSpliff Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 127 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Welcome about Danse! In Fleet Boats I take my data from my radar and turn it into a pretty little X in the map. In U-Boat Missions I just end up with a lot of "something in that direction" lines. Usually I can use them to get an idea about how the target is traveling, but it's not as neat and precise as the radar method. __________________ "I'll rant as well as thou." Hamlet, Act 5, Scene 1

08-09-08, 12:04 PM	#9
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,899 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Welcome Danse! Yes, we could revolutionize secondary schooling by teaching all high school trigonometry in a submarine simulator. Then all the students could say, "Trig is a blast!" __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-08-08, 05:11 PM	#3
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,892 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 0	Isn't there a watchofficer reporting range/bearing as in sh3 (when on the surface)?

08-09-08, 08:22 AM	#7
-Danse- Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 14 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	I found very much the same last night, LeeVanSpliff. I had a load of marked contacts in a general area, with a general heading. Both gradually got more accurate as he came nearer until I could nail him down toward the end. I have to admit, all four fish hit in a very tight area, but this was broad daylight. Hopefully will get to try out a night attack sometime today, and I'll see how I go on with that. Lack of visibility is going to make my range estimates a bit wild I think. Will have to see. The manual targetting is the most fun I've had for ages, and I have SubSim to thank for that. I'd never even thought of trying it until I came here. One thing which bugs me though, and is slightly related: The manual mentions changing the name of marks on the map, and adding comments up to 50+ characters long. Is this possible? Be damned if I can find a way to do it. Again, thanks for the responses guys. Having a ball here.

08-09-08, 11:06 AM	#8
-Danse- Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 14 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Aha, nm, found the answer. Other threads have mentioned that altering map markers doesn't appear to have been implemented. Guess that explains why I can't find it.

08-09-08, 12:42 PM	#10
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Something you may or may not find useful, but it's always good to have more tools: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116572 __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

08-10-08, 01:48 PM	#11
-Danse- Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 14 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Thanks Sailor Steve. Downloaded. Looks like a solid tool.

08-15-08, 06:17 AM	#12
prince_vlad Watch Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 28 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	When I played for the first time SH3 (what I say here goes for SH4 as well)I wanted to be "realistic" 100% like you want...but things didn't get so fun as I thought they would. As I know, hope I'm not wrong, getting the distance EXACTLY to target with radar IN GAME it's not possible.I don't recall looking at radar (if it was installed one) or listening the officers reports and hearing the DISTANCE to the target...The radar gives you a relatively bearing position (because the target is on the move!) and when it's night....GOOD BY finding the exact distance...So if you wanna go real with TDC you have to guess the distance and practice a lot and then experience would bring you the reward of guessing the distances....I presume.In manual it is said that you can calculate the distance to target in two modes: 1.identifying the type of ship and then looking for hights which helps to calculate the distance to it 2.measuring yourself the hight of the ship looking through persicope and inputing the data result into calculating the distance.. Hope I'm not wrong.... Anyway...good luck!

08-15-08, 08:44 AM	#13
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,899 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Why don't you check out my very buried U-Boat Fast-90 tutorial in the Advanced TDC/PK thread? No video yet, but I think the instructions will get you started. The Dick O'Kane technique in the same post works for U-Boats too. The beauty of these two techniques is that range doesn't matter one bit in setting up your shot. You can even leave the range set to zero if you want. Don't try them unless you want to be deadly and have a lot of fun doing it. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS