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Old 09-10-05, 01:46 AM   #196
Mercedes
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Default Great work

It's hard to believe the amount of work you guys put in to strive for realism.

Hats off.
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Old 09-10-05, 12:20 PM   #197
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Amizaur and I are finishing v2.0 of the mod now.

I am working on the readme currently and Amizaur is making final edits on the database and his *fabulous* doctrine mods.

I will post a first version of the readme as soon as I can, but here's a teaser:

Amizaur has coded a doctrine-level solution for torpedos that completely prevents them from exploding on acquired CM's AND prevents AI platforms from hitting ships with torpedos launched at submerged targets.

Much more to follow very soon.
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Old 09-10-05, 03:48 PM   #198
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Awesome.

I just hope that, if the non-detonating thing works, that the CM effectiveness is not reduced as originally planned.

This should hopefully end the need for saturation tactics and make DW more of a skill game. Great work.
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Old 09-10-05, 03:50 PM   #199
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And I was just about posting questions if the CM were realistic... Wading through this thread I must say you guys solved some issues that in this first week since I am with DW got my "attention". My compliments! Deeds say so much more than words. I haven't tried 1.03, but will wait for 2.0 now which seems to be just short time away now. ah, and ask SCS to pay you a fee. they really should, since it is their job you are doing - and delivering
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Old 09-10-05, 06:06 PM   #200
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Here is the complete readme (some changes may be made prior to release):

Quote:

LuftWolf and Amizaur’s Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod v2.0
Hosted by www.subguru.com
Readme by LuftWolf

Amizaur has made a more substantial and significant contribution to the creation of this mod than me. Thank you to finiteless, Ludgar, and jsteed for their contributions to modding DW. Thank you to Bill “Subguru” Nichols for hosting the work of so many talents modders and mission designers.

All doctrines by Amizaur.

The purpose of this mod is, straightforwardly, to address the aspects of DW game-play that most bother its authors, while improving the simulation experience and fixing bugs, without introducing any new ones. Thank you in advance for downloading this mod. Please send as much feedback as you can via the dedicated thread on the www.subsim.com main forum, http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...=41581&start=0.

INSTALLATION: Unzip the file into your Dangerous Waters directory, the Database files and Doctrine files will install to the proper directories on their own. I recommend backing up your Database and Doctrine files before making any changes.

Note: This mod represents substantial changes to DW core game-play, and as such, will probably require fine-tuning in subsequent versions to particular values based on game-play experiences. However, such is the case precisely because, we feel, it represents a quantum leap towards bringing out the full potential of the massive and dynamic DW engine in terms of providing the feel of a quality simulation experience for both those new to the simulation genre and weathered deep blue warriors. Please send us AAR’s and comments in as great a quantity as you can! We would be especially encouraged to hear from players in the multiplayer community.

A Sound vs. Speed profile chart and new Ship, Sub, and Torpedo specification table will be released in support of this readme, to cover any specific changes to AI ships or weaponry (such as the complete listing of sonar parameter assignments) not covered in this document, however, I have taken to care to note the most important specific parameter changes to user platforms and weapons.

v2.0

Game-Play Changes

Sonar:

Passive Sonar—Amizaur has changed all passive sensors to have a virtually unlimited detection range potential, meaning that very loud contacts will be detected at very distant ranges, and there is no sudden “spike” when very loud contacts come into detection range. Detection performance against quiet targets is unchanged, as the majority of contacts are acquired under the previous maximum range of most user-platform sensors.

Active Sonar—Amizaur has been able to reduce the detection range of the DICASS active detection on submarines to something under max range, so now it is possible for the sub player to avoid detection within the range of the sonar by lowering speed and showing a low aspect to the active sonar array. This change represents a fundamental database correction for the “active sonar bug” currently in DW v1.01 and should help balance the game until the fix is hard-coded in the next official patch, especially aiding Kilo players in attacking surface targets undetected, as previously it was almost impossible to stalk a convoy.

AI Sonar (Thank you to Periscope Depth for input on this aspect of the mod)— I have added sensors to all sonar-bearing platforms that reflect realistic sonars. I have done this in the following method. Divided the sonars into three catagories: Western, Modern Russian/Soviet-Nuclear, Eastern Diesel/Old Eastern Block. From the Western, I made three scaled versions each of the Sphere, Hull, and TA sonars from the 688i sensors, and assigned them to each platform in the game with Western sonars, according to level and whether they had a TA. I then did the same for the Modern Russian, borrowing from the Akula Sensors, assigning them to nuclear submarines with modern Eastern Sonar. The Kilo array model I used for diesels with eastern sonars and old submarines, which are mostly eastern. For surface platform sonars, I have used the FFG sonar as a model.

The primary difference between the Western and Eastern sonars are the washout speed. The best Russian arrays are more sensitive than the worst Western arrays (still good), but the Western arrays maintain a signal at a higher speed. The new Eastern sonars and the old Eastern sonars differ in terms of their maximum range, the Kilo sensors I used for the model are much shorter range than the Akula sensors.

A separate chart listing sonars, assignments, and detection parameters will most likely be released subsequent to the mod after further testing.

Object Sound and Sound vs. Speed Fix (for sound levels credit also to finiteless, jsteed, and Periscope Depth; research, final design, and implementation by Amizaur)—Amizaur has completely reworked the object sounds and the sound vs. speed behavior for realistic effects. Submarines and ships are realistically quiet across platforms and have been assigned varying speed curves. New SSNs have different speed curves from old SSNs. SSBNs are relatively quiet at max speed. Old diesels are quiet when stopped but very noisy when moving at speed, and the latest SSKs are very quiet. In addition, all surface platforms have been assigned realistic speed curves and American ships, especially the OHP FFG, are quieter than before relative to other platforms. Specifically, the OHP does not increase noise above stationary level until it is running above 10kts. Please see the separate Sound vs. Speed Chart for specifics.

Playable Passive Sonar Parameters—All playable passive sonar arrays have changed to have a Maximum detection of height of 10m. Previously hull sonars and buoys had a Max of 0m and sphere and towed arrays had a max of 300m. This caused any object with a passive sound level to show up on sonar as if it were underwater, specifically sea-skimming missiles whose sound levels were changed in this mod to simulate underwater missile launch (Thank you TLAM Strike for finding this). I have not set the depths to 0m because this causes contacts to display inconsistently on the BB waterfall. I do not believe that cone sensitivity is effected in any way by this fix within the detection Max and Mins, but there could be other issues I am not aware of. This may be refined later, but it is necessary now to address persistent sea-skimming missile transients.

Torpedos:

Amizaur has been able to make significant improvements to torpedo function.

TorpHoming Doctrine—This doctrine completely disables torpedo explosions on countermeasures. The torpedo, after acquiring a dropped decoy, will pass through the decoy and re-enable on the other side. Sometimes the torpedo will demonstrate odd behavior immediately after being spoofed, as could be realistic, but will always return to seeking properly if within its max range. Note: some of the TEST-71s on the Kilos use the wakehoming doctrine, so their behavior is unaffected by this mod.

Torpedo Doctrine—The updated version of this doctrine: reduces the search arc of the snake pattern for torpedoes to 30 degrees; randomizes the first turn of the snake pattern; and, most importantly, prevents AI torpedoes launched against submerged targets from striking surface ships 90% of the time, by lowering the minimum depth of AI launched torpedoes.

Torpedo Seekers—Amizaur has modeled a wide range of active and passive seekers, with individual seekers for the most important torpedoes, including distinctive ping frequencies for classification over active intercept, as is realistic. The ADCAP active seeker is max range 3000m and its passive seeker is max range 1000m, will all other torpedoes scaled down from there, meaning there has been a significant reduction in the effectiveness of all torpedo weapons to reflect realistic parameters. Note: the parameters of all of the torpedo seekers have been tweaked so that thermal layers have a much greater effect on torpedo performance. Also, the seekers cones of the ADCAP and USGT have been increased to minimize the effect of the reduced snake search pattern on the effectiveness of these weapons.

Counter Measure Effectiveness—The effectiveness of launched anti-torpedo CM’s has been reduced to 40%. In addition, to emphasize, torpedoes will no longer explode on decoys. We feel that the reduction in CM effectiveness is necessitated by the much closer detection range of all sonar systems on quiet platforms do to reduction in over all sound level which changes game-play significantly, especially the great reduction in torpedo seeker ranges, as well as the greater effect of thermal layers. This and all aspects of the mod are welcome to community input for future changes, so please send as much feedback as you can!

Torpedo Sensor Feedback—ADCAP, USGT, and TEST-71 family of wire-guided torpedoes have been equipped with ability to send sensor feedback to the launching platform similar to the UUV. Targets marked by the torpedo sensors will be marked with a T prefix, and will be accounted for by the TMA just like other sensor tracks. Please send as much feedback as possible about this particular feature of the mod, as it can be extremely helpful in hunting lone subs at range, but in crowded contact environments can lead to a large number of extra tracks, especially with multiple torpedo launches. I have to say, this feature is extremely cool.

WakeHoming Doctrine—Amizaur has reduced somewhat the effectiveness of wake-homing torpedoes by shortening the detection range of their sensor, especially for frontal shots against ships, which now much be made much more accurately. In general, the effect of this doctrine is to make wake-homing torpedoes something less than the 99% effective they were before, especially against targets that make effective evasive maneuvers. Also, all strictly wakehoming torpedoes have altered to be fired only against identified surface targets.

Fast Torpedo Speed Oscillation Fix—Due to a hard-coded error in the DW v1.01 engine, all torpedoes from speeds 56-159 display a wide speed oscillation and or increased speed. We cannot change this directly, however, the speeds of all torpedoes over 55kts have been reduced to 55kts and compensated with more realistic parameters.
ADCAP—Speed raised in v1.03 of our mod to 60kts. Lowered again to 55kts and given the best seeker in the mod as well as torpedo sensor feedback.
Spearfish—Range increased by 10,000m to 32km.
Type 89—Reduced turn radius to 100 (as all other torpedos) as previously high turn radius is now unnecessary with lower speed. Increased range by 15,000m to 45km and given it ASuW capability.
Type 40—Increased range of SS-N-27 ASW family of subrocs to 27nm, as is realistic.
APR-2E—range increased from 3.2km to 5km.


Damage Modeling:

All values for neutral and supply ships have been adjusted to make them more realistic in terms of the damage they will sustain. Light civilian ships are made more fragile and heavier ships are made realistically difficult to sink. Heavy military supply ships are made slightly more sturdy than the OH Perry Class FFG. Medium supply ships and oil tankers are slightly less rugged than the OHP, and medium civilian ships have been made slightly tougher than before. Expect to have to use several medium and light torpedoes or missiles against heavy shipping now, with more necessity to be careful in wasting weapons when facing a convoy. Please see the separate platform specifications table to be released soon after the release of the mod for details.

Masts and Cables:

Periscope Depth’s Cable Length Mod—Thank you to Periscope Depth for providing this. The length of user-platform cables have been changed to real-world lengths: SQR-19/TB-29/23—5000ft, MH-60 Dipping Sonar—2500ft, and Pelamida TA—2300/701m.

Universal Doctrine Fixes:


SubAvoidxx-- Doctrines correct a bug in sub evasion routines that tells them to come too
shallow while evading, causing cavitation. Well tested.

Missle/MissleSam-- Corrects minor bugs in missile launch angles. Well tested.

SubrocAttack-- Improves accuracy of Subroc torpedo drop points.

CIWSAttack.txt-- Directs ships to fire a barrage of missles at "hard" targets,
ALPHA very close or very fast. It is your choice to include this, you can backup
your original CIWSAttack.txt doctrine and change the name of the file
included. I have played with this, and it definately makes ships launch more
SAM's at incoming vampires. I have yet to encounter any bugs with it.





Missile Parameters:

Passive Signature for Underwater Missile Launch--All sub-launched missles now produce a very noisy transient when launched. The exception to this is the Harpoon, which is much quieter,simulating its launch from a canister which opens up once it gets to the surface, making it a better option verse the TASM than previously.***Underwater missile launches will not give a TIW or any other audio warning.*** Thank you Bellman for raising this issue and Fish for confirming it over a LAN. Also, Amizaur has include a doctrine addition to the general submarine avoidance doctrine, SubDef, that allows subs to recognize underwater missile launches and evade under parameters in which it could be a subroc attack, giving AI subs a better chance of clearing the target datum and surviving subroc attack.


IR Signatures-
IR signatures added for all missles based on type, with a reasonable scaling from
seaskimming cruise-missles to supersonic, rocket powered anti-ship missles. This now
makes RAMs effective against anti-ship missles.

Amizaur's MANPAD Seeker Fix-
We have included the fix that has been around for sometime, reducing the seeker cone
of MANPADs to 3 degrees.

Radar Heights Changed—Some radar heights have been lowered, as previously some ships
BETA had been able to see too far over the horizon. Also, the minimum altitude
of the AEGIS SPY-1 Radar has been lowered from 5000ft to 10ft, which should
help them better track sea-skimming vampires.

Launched Anti-Missile CM's—effectiveness raised from 20% to 25%.(Thank you Mau for
suggesting this.)

MAD/SAD:

MAD—sensors have had max detection depth reduced from -3000ft to a realistic -1000.ft

SAD—sensors have had max detection depth reduced from -3000ft to a realistic -750ft. Note:
the only difference between a MAD and SAD detection in the game is the depth at which
they are detected, so if I set the depths the same, the sensors would be exactly the
same sensor,as the platforms only vary in MAD characteristic, and have no separate SAD
characteristic).

AI MAD—AI platforms do not have a separate MAD/SAD detector. Previously, they had been setto detect from 0 to -3000ft. In order to permit realistic evasion tactics from MAD
equipped AI air platforms, I have set the AI MAD sensor to have SAD characteristics
(have fun under those funky sounding cargo ships!)

User Platform, Weapon, and Sensor Specific Changes

User Torpedo Specification Changes: (Thank you to Bellman for raising the issue of torpedo balancing)

53cm Torpedo—given UGST specifications: Active/Passive Multipurpose Wireguided Torpedo, 50km@50kph, with maximum depth 800m (less on fire-control preset panel) with 300kg warhead (vs. MK48 ADCAP 850m depth w/350kg warhead).

65cm Torpedo—guidance sensor and doctrine changed to simulate 65-76 Wakehoming Hydrogen Peroxide-powered Torpedo (the type supposedly removed after the Kursk Incident). All specifications have been left the same except guidance-following the wakehome doctrine now-and the the wire has been removed. The wire-guidance option has been disable in-game, but I can't change the fire-control graphics, so you'll just have to remember that the A/P and search pattern buttons do nothing, and that the torpedo will continue in a straigh line after it enables. LAUNCH THE TORPEDO WITH THE DEPTH SET AT ~10m, depending on how lucky you feel that day. The Nixie should not affect this weapon in any way, but over-the-side decoys will cause enough of a disturbance in the water to distrupt the wakehoming, but the torpedo will not detonate on the CM's, and usually reaquire.

Mk46—Given Mk54 hypothetical specs, 17km@50kts with max depth 500m and a light weight, for airdrop use in littoral waters (the turn radius may be decreased in subsequent versions to further increase this effect). I have given the Mk46 ASW torpedo Mk 46 specs, and swapped out the modded Mk 46 in all non-American platforms and the Mk46 ASROC for the Mk 46 ASW (with Mk46 specs). So in short, all non-American platforms are armed with the standard Mk 46 torpedo they had previously, and all American platforms have upgraded to Mk 54. Again, Mk 46 ASROC has been left the same for all platforms. I thought it wasn't good to have a useless Mk46, so I did some research and came up with a torpedo that is marginally better than the Mk50 all round, but doesn't replace it, reflecting a torpedo with the upgraded propulsion of a Mk46 with the seeker of the Mk50, which constitutes the actual Mk 54 as indicated by my information. As the Navy's intention is to have a lower cost option to the Mk50, the propulsion system of which is very expensive. For me personally, I will be taking more Mk 54's now, unless I need to kill something deep!

53-65 Wake-homing Torpedo Family—The minimum running depth of the torpedo has been set to -14m in order to ensure proper launch depth against surface targets. You can still launch the torpedo from as deeply as before.

Shikval Mad Sensor—The MAD detonator on the Shikval has had its range reduced by half to 250m, as previously any shot within 500m of the target resulted in a kill, this makes it possible to evade one of these weapons if it is off target and proper maneuvering is used quickly.

SLMM and Mobile Mine—Includes Doctrine Files, Mod by Amizaur
A fix that makes them stop making noise after they have stopped moving has been
applied to both weapons. In addition, they will now actively try to stop once
they have reached their assigned location and will be reliably on target and hold
their position, making them an effective weapon, which they were not before. Their
maximum usable depth remains the same (300ft for SLMM and 450ft for Mobile mines,
the range of their seekers), but the weapon will shutdown below 600ft. These weapons
are for use in shallow water and will "malfunction" in deep water. ;-) Also, do not
try to use these weapons on a steep slope.

Seawolf Max Speed—The max speed of the Seawolf class has been reduced to 38kts, as is more plausible. The Seawolf is still easily the quietest, fastest, and most heavily armed submarine in the world. ;-)

688(i) Towed Arrays- Added TB-23 as starboard array. The reason I have kept it
on the starboard, against what is commonly reported, is because in missions
where ownship starts with TA deployed, it is always the starboard array, and I
figured in most situations I would want that one deployed. The port TB-16
washes out at ~20kts and the TB-23 washes out at around ~16kts (you folks
can tell me if that feels right once you play around with it...
or if I'm just completely off...). I have set the sensitivity of the TB-23
to be pretty much in the middle of the TB-16 and the TB-29. I was even able to
change the names in game, so have fun captains!

Akula II Modified Gepard TA—The array of the Gepard has been upgraded to hypothetical Pelamida II standards, with a Max speed of +4kts over the original Pelamida, and the in game name has been changed to “Pelamida II”. The sensitivity has been left as it is. This array has also been assigned to the Oscar SSGN, to reflect the latest developments in the most funded Russian submarine projects.

Kilo Improved Sensors—The cylindrical and hull arrays of the Kilo Improved series of subs has been marginally improved over the Kilo in order to reflect real-world improvements from one version of the Kilo to the next, as well as compensate slightly for the new sound levels. The Kilo Imp should be able to detect loud contacts from reasonably far away, around 40km, however is severely limited by lack of a TA in ASW warfare, with limited detection ranges on all modern submarines.

Midget Sub—The Midget sub has been given a periscope sensor, as previously it had no sensors at all, and its active sonar parameters have been changed to make it more detectable as is realistic.

Russian SVTT-Ship Launched Torpedos—Changed to USET-80, to better reflect Russian
capabilites. Note, only Russian SVTT launchers previously
equipped with 53cm torpedos have been changed, some launchers are equipped
with other torpedos. Also, the Grisha FFL retains the 53cm Torpedo w/UGST
specifications, as the USNR in-game database says its launchers have
been modified to fire wire-guided torpedos, so I thought it might be interesting.

Russian Airdropped Torpedoes—Platforms that had previously been firing the 53cm will use the APR-2E, the torpedo which comes equipped as the default weapon the Helix ASW Helo.

SLAM-ER Fix—I have removed the missile's IR seeker, which apparently was interfering with its terminal homing. The missile now looks in the DB and behaves in the game
like a light TLAM, and, *functions correctly*, exploding on target with
the same accuracy of a TLAM. Note, this weapon is not the most effective strike
missile, as it has less than half of the warhead of the TLAM, meaning you need
more than one missile to destroy medium and heavy targets if the missile does
not land directly on target. Even small, light targets may escape the blast of
this missile if it overshoots. For some reason, IF YOU DO NOT CHANGE THE
WAYPOINTS, THIS MISSLE WILL NOT WORK!!! I can't change this, and I'm not sure why.


SS-N-27 Two Stage Mod—Mod by Amizaur, doctrine file included—The first stage of the missile launches the second one and rises into the air as a decoy, to simulate the reported real-world function of the missile. This version of the mod uses a streamlined doctrine format that needs only one doctrine file. The enable point of the first stage, which is a cruise missile at 500kts with a max range of 200km/108nm, enables its seeker as usual, however, when the seeker has acquired a target, the missile will fire the second stage, which is the supersonic attack phase equipped with the final seeker and warhead with speed 2.5 mach and range 24km/13nm. This version of the mod requires less finesse in entering the proper range, as the missile will tend to detect targets around the max range of the second stage, but it is good to enable the missile somewhere around the max range of the second stage to minimize the chance of an early fire and take full advantage of the coordination of the second stage supersonic sea-skimming attack phase and first stage post-launch decoy.

That's it! We hope you enjoy! Please let us know if you find any errors, would like to
contribute to a future release, or have any suggestions or comments. The place is http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...=41581&start=0.

Happy Hunting.

LW
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Old 09-10-05, 06:12 PM   #201
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Readme posted on page 8.

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...1581&start=175

We have some last minute changes and additions to make to a few platforms and files and then we will do final testing and then I can make the distribution and send it to Bill.

I expect to email it over night so you may have it tomorrow.
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Old 09-10-05, 06:34 PM   #202
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If I get it overnight, it should be posted by noon, tomorrow.
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Old 09-10-05, 07:50 PM   #203
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Thanks Bill!

The following has been added to the readme:
Quote:
SubrocAttack-- Improves accuracy of Subroc torpedo drop points and lowers the minimum range of all subrocs to 2nm, so that players cannot exploit the Russian interface bug that allows players to set minimum ranges below what is allowed. Even though you can set it to 0 in the launch, the minimum in effect will still be 2nm.
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Old 09-10-05, 09:53 PM   #204
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I'm exhausted... 8 hours of modding and 4.43AM here but the mod is finished, database is ready (Luftwolf is checking it) and I just finished work on all doctrines. Two major doctrine mods, I'll relase them as standalone too - very simple (but took two days to find) torphoming doctrine fix for torpedos not detonating on CMs (with exeption of towed CM), so they would work like in Sub Command at last :-) and other mod i'm personally very proud of - prevents AI subs and ships from sinking innocent civilian ships or even own surface units with ASW torpedos. It works now just like if AI units were setting proper ceiling for their ASW weapons if surface ships are in proximity.
Well, some very fundamental changes in database too. Be ready for VERY different game, and realism increased by 300%. And this is just verion 2.0 of mod, I have ideas for more improvements just not all at once

I'm crawling to bed now (thanks God it's close ;-) and tomorrow we have to do only final testing, write documentation and I'll make those graphs for NL etc.

Cheers ! And VERY big THANKS for Ludger, for his support in form of priceless modding tools !!!
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Old 09-10-05, 10:15 PM   #205
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Congrats and thanks (I am in the same timezone as you Amizaur I believe, I played the game while you modded )

Now get some sleep, and tomorrow, when you take a look at your mod after some rest, prepare to notice some bugs that creeped in while you entered the data, half asleep :rotfl:

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Old 09-11-05, 12:21 AM   #206
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Thanks guys for work hard work and dedication to our community.

Cheers!
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Old 09-11-05, 02:10 AM   #207
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I cant believe the work you guys have done - thank you so much.

Running through the 2.0 Readme I began to salivate ready for its lunchtime release by Bill.
It is the fullfilment of our wildest dreams.
There is just so much in there that will completely transform and enhance the games playability.

Then I fell off my chair....................
''Torpedo Sensor Feedback.'' Wooow - words fail me, again. :|\
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Old 09-11-05, 04:06 AM   #208
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Thanks guys.

Quote:
Running through the 2.0 Readme I began to salivate ready for its lunchtime release by Bill.
Amizaur and I have decided to put the mod through one more round of very thorough testing and to hopefully release it with its full documentation (readme plus sound vs speed suppliment and perhaps a unit chart) tonight.

I hope you guys don't mind waiting a little bit longer for a more complete package, we want to make sure we are as bug free as possible before we release.
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Old 09-11-05, 04:31 AM   #209
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NP - Take your time - its worth waiting for. :|\
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Old 09-11-05, 05:32 AM   #210
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That's some cool stuff you've done there Amizaur.
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