Attacking convoys - "Thrill factor" only?

[Benzin1973]

I used to think that the main reasons for taking the risk of attacking convoys (namely Escorted convoys) were:
A) The juiciest targets were in convoys.
B) The "Thrill/Excitement" factor, you know, the excitement of it being dangerous due to the convoys escorts.

But lately i have encountered some very tasty targets traveling solo, empire freighters, large merchants, all sorts of fat targets from C2/medium cargo and upwards. It seems to me that the trick to finding these tasties is just knowing where to look.
So i guess this takes previous reason "A" out.

On the other hand, hitting a convoy is obviously more dangerous, they are escorted, some of the targets have guns, etc. and i hear that late war (i havent been there yet) convoys are nearly suicide.
Not to mention that attacking convoys sometimes doesnt allow me to get in ideal firing positions (e.g. 90º on their port/starboard 1.5k away), hence im more likely to miss.

So i guess the only reason is "B"? Do we only go risk our lives against a convoy for the "thrills", or is there another reason?

Reading about how hard it gets starting 1942 with GWX makes me cross myself hehe, and since my main responsability is keeping my crew alive (including myself), and assuming it really is as hard & dangerous as i read it is, i think i will give up convoys once i hit "the 1942 wall".

[Von Due]

I would imagine many players choose convoys when they want to play it historically as convoy hunting was a huge part of it. Thrill is definitely there and if you can successfully attack a convoy from '43 and onwards, and survive, you have achieved quite a lot in this game.

[bstanko6]

Von Due is right. If you were a real simmer, that yearned for realism, then you would know that Doenitz would not be pleased with only attacking single shipping. You would be given court martial for being a coward.

[Aquelarrefox]

no, thats too much. Many deads by hunting to hang someone for dont serch convoys.

foward, to complicated find sone ships after middle of war. If they spot good target as grosser armed merchant, they hit it. go great tonelage or operational advantage as supplys.

[Benzin1973]

Maybe im worrying too much about something i havent really experienced yet.
Im only on late 1940, so i dont really know how hard it is (or isnt) to hit a convoy in 1943. I will give it a try once i get there. so far 1940 convoys are not hard at all, even task force ones.

About "being hanged" for not attacking convoys, if i return to port with a record of 24000 tons of ships sunk, i dont understand why would Donitz be so "upset". I think 24000 tons is 24000 tons, i dont see what relevance would it have it they were travling alone or in group. Provided i wasnt ordered to sink a specific target travling in a convoy of course.

This is slightly off topic but, As for being a "true simmer" or not, ("simmer" as in i dont use time compression and actually wait 49 hours to travel, and put on my captain outfit to play), thats easy. Im not.

I find that "truly simulating" something that happened over 70 years ago, in the other side of the world, with people from other countries, in the middle of the ocean on a metal boat, during war, under life or death conditions, while sitting in front of my computer in my home, is not very viable.
So i dont worry too much about "simulating" it.
Instead I enjoy playing this game wich is based on historical events to have fun. and dont take it dead-seriously.

[Mittelwaechter]

The job was to sink as many freighters as possible - as efficiently as possible.

A flock of targets close together, a few attack runs and then back to base to reload and come back for the next convoy. Demoralize the English toper in London!

Searching single freighters takes more time, uses more resources, exposes the U-boot to aircraft attacks.

In the game it is pretty simple to sneak up a single helpless freighter and shoot it unseen. The joy of excitement comes with an opponent able to fight back.

In '43 it takes some skill to survive - and the FAT are fun.

[Benzin1973]

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

The job was to sink as many freighters as possible - as efficiently as possible.

A flock of targets close together, a few attack runs and then back to base to reload and come back for the next convoy. Demoralize the English toper in London!

Searching single freighters takes more time, uses more resources, exposes the U-boot to aircraft attacks.

In the game it is pretty simple to sneak up a single helpless freighter and shoot it unseen. The joy of excitement comes with an opponent able to fight back.

In '43 it takes some skill to survive - and the FAT are fun.

Yes that makes perfect sense. Up to the point in time i am now (Nov. 1941), one convoy attack yields two large ships sunk in relatively little time, and escaping is relatively easy (provided i did things right). This is efficient indeed.

But what about in say 1943? from what ibe read here (and maybe those were gross exagerations?), "attacking a convoy is almost suicide!" as in, most likely you will end up dead. From an efficiency point of view, an uboat taking more time attacking lone ships, is more efficient than an lost uboat filled with corpses on the bottom of the sea! hehe
From a historical point of view, lets not forget uboat many times attacked convoys in "packs" wich sadly is something we cant do here.


From a having more fun point of view... Absolutely!. Targeting lone freighters was a ton of fun for me back when the main challenge was actually hitting it, doing the plotting correctly, obtaining accurate data for the TDC, learning to manouver to a good position, after all that efford seeing that torpedo hit the target was the thrill in itself!

But now that i have more experience and manage to hit my targets most of the time, plotting and punching numbers in the TDC is almost routine, it does get old. In fact the most fun ibe had so far in SH3, was the time i took an aircraft carrier from a task force.

So i guess the answer to my question is:
A) Yep, mostly because its more fun (thrill factor)
B) its more historicaly accurate.

Now im very curious to see those 1943 convoys!

[bstanko6]

You misunderstand me. You are right about tonnage is tonnage. But what kind of tonnage was important. think about logistics. A convoy consists of tanks, machine parts, oil, ammunition, guns, troops, and explosives. You won't find that on a single merchant ship. Convoys protected these resources.

If you just want to sink ships and not play out the real reason the uboat exists, then that is a personal preference.

Seek out the convoys my friend! You fight for the Fatherland!

[Benzin1973]

Originally Posted by bstanko6

You misunderstand me. You are right about tonnage is tonnage. But what kind of tonnage was important. think about logistics. A convoy consists of tanks, machine parts, oil, ammunition, guns, troops, and explosives. You won't find that on a single merchant ship. Convoys protected these resources.

If you just want to sink ships and not play out the real reason the uboat exists, then that is a personal preference.

Seek out the convoys my friend! You fight for the Fatherland!

Good point on the quality of tonnage! It makes sense that the most important cargo was the one guarded on convoys.

I will continue to attack those convoys, only if it gets too hard for me to handle later in the war, will i consider only attacking lone ships, or improving/adjusting my tactics.
And besides, allways attacking lone merchants gets boring, we need the thrill to keep the fun!
fur das fatherland!

[Sailor Steve]

If the game itself was realistic there would be fewer and fewer lone ships as the war goes on, for the very reasons mentioned. Early in the war merchant captains didn't like being tied to other ships, didn't like following orders, and felt their chances were better travelling alone. As the war progressed they came to realize the advantages of travelling in a group and that, while they might be less likely to encounter a u-boat when alone they were at much greater risk if they did..

[Aquelarrefox]

well but in general find lones ships is complicate far away from englad (by south or south) or us coast even in gwx or wac. mybe more traffic than historicly but its hard to find for example lone ships infront of dakar. you dont symply go and they are not there walking as kongolenses in belgian party.

[rudewarrior]

Originally Posted by bstanko6

You misunderstand me. You are right about tonnage is tonnage. But what kind of tonnage was important. think about logistics. A convoy consists of tanks, machine parts, oil, ammunition, guns, troops, and explosives. You won't find that on a single merchant ship. Convoys protected these resources.

If you just want to sink ships and not play out the real reason the uboat exists, then that is a personal preference.

Seek out the convoys my friend! You fight for the Fatherland!

I'd like to second this. The highest priority ships were tankers. And you really don't find those floating solo.

[bstanko6]

Rudewarrior, could you imagine being a sailor on a tanker in that time? My god, every night would be a nightmare, not knowing when that torp was coming!

[blackswan40]

Hi Guys check this out the world at war Documentary Wolfpacks
A Great Watch Enjoy



Hi Guys check this out the world at war Documentary Wolfpacks
A Great Watch Enjoy

1940 -1941 Convoys 30-40 Merchants 4-5 Escorts

The Atlantic Treacherous Enough in Peace Time in Time of war Black With Menace

These Escorts did not have elite crews a Clemson/Town Class USN WW1 Destroyer
Lease Lend Destroyer deal had a crew of 146 the Captain transferred from the
Merchant Navy two other Officers Canadians and their sea going experience was
crossing the Atlantic and all the rest of the crew retired navy recalled or Civilians called up
so at best the crews were untrained and lacked experience the other escorts would be Corvettes
with a crew of 85 with same class of crew also between the wars convoy defence was neglected
when a Uboat wolfpack attacks at night in a partly cloudy moonlit night the moon at the back of the convoy
silhouetting the merchant ships the Uboats are in the darkness picking targets while penetrating the very thin
escort screen this would be the norm and would last 3-7 days day attacks night attacks also you would have
Fokkerwolf 290 condors Searching for Convoys & keeping Contact of the Convoy the Germans held all the Aces
The Germans Call this the Happy Time

In the winter months when the rough seas came in to your ship and put the galley fires out you could not cook
anything hot so your food at meal times was served cold corned beef and dog biscuits this food was known as Hard Tack
imagine living on that two to three weeks

The Battle of the Atlantic Tragedy

of the 180,000 Men of the Merchant Navy 60,000 Died though petty grievances squabbles by senior commanders
of Coastal Command Royal Airforce and Royal Navy Commanders so men suffered from the Uboat peril a lack cooperation
a lack of training and the Sea

[bstanko6]

Thanks Blackswan.