LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod - Page 8

LuftWolf · 08-26-05, 04:54 PM

The values I am changing are not relative values. They instruct the game to only display contacts to the sensor within a certain range of absolute depths.

It is the same fix I applied to the persistent missile transients, lowering the detection altitudes of sonars to 10ft, just in reverse, raising the maximum detection depth of the mad and sad to 1000/750.

The overall geometry is unaffected by the change.

LuftWolf · 08-26-05, 05:01 PM

The biggest problem, is that AI platforms only have the MAD sensor, and that is tuned to 0, 1000, meaning your tactic wouldn't work.

So, I have decided to change it to a SAD sensor in effect, with depth range -50 to -750 feet, to avoid AI aircraft dropping torpedos on overflown ships and to make it possible to avoid them. I am not sure if a crew would actually drop on a MAD only contact with no other confirmation, but I suppose its better this way to be sure.

You guys can let me know if it would be better to have all AI MAD sensors behave like SAD sensors.

Amizaur · 08-26-05, 06:06 PM

What is difference between MAD and SAD ? :-)

TLAM Strike · 08-26-05, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amizaur

What is difference between MAD and SAD ? :-)

MAD detects any metallic object (Except perhaps subs made of titanium like the Alfa) SAD detects only submarines.

PeriscopeDepth · 08-26-05, 06:39 PM

I think even if you limit the AI to MAD they will still know it's a submarine and drop anywho.

Bellman · 08-27-05, 01:58 AM

LuftWolf and Amizaur.

The Adcap and UGST range/speeds seem a good compromise for playability, especialy in MP.

Now with powerfull 65 wakehomers and good missile transients we have a superior mod. which will make the sim
much more playable and enjoyable.

Thanks guys - magic. .........

:|\

Bellman.

LuftWolf · 08-27-05, 03:04 PM

Upon further review, I have decided to set all SAD sensors and the AI MAD sensor to -750/-30ft, to prevent subs from avoiding detection at periscope depth.

SquidB · 08-27-05, 08:17 PM

Guys this mods amazing. My favourite feature is the missile launch transients. Plus the fact that my Akula now doesnt carry imaginary weapons.

(do we still get the TIW report for missiles or has that been shelved due to the persistant sonar problem?)

Anyway, I think you guys need to be clear about the objectives of all this.

I am all for a realisim mod, I think that as far as MP play balance goes SCS had its pretty bang on.

If i want a fair one on one fight ill play DW vanilla. If I want a realistic reflection of what a russian sub can or cant do then ill go with an informed mod such as this. Ill adapt my tactics accordingly, and sometimes it can be intresting in the underdog in a combat sim.

Well keep up the good work, dont worry about play balance, just try to make it as real as you can.

Bellman · 08-28-05, 12:44 AM

It would be nice to have some reports back from players using the mod in MP.

I think its too early to draw any conclusions about play balance and to be fair to the modders they need feedback
to make any adjustments /trims/corrections.

PS. There are no TIWs (now/ever) in the mod.

Mau · 08-28-05, 07:54 AM

Are we saying that there are no missile inbound indication anymore?
That would not be good?

Bellman · 08-28-05, 10:57 AM

In the LuftAmiz mod we have much improved missile launch transients.

SquidB wrote:-

Quote:

(do we still get the TIW report for missiles or has that been shelved due to the persistant sonar problem?)

We have no TIWs for missile launches in this mod.

NastyHyena · 08-28-05, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellman

In the LuftAmiz mod we have much improved missile launch transients.

SquidB wrote:-

Quote:

(do we still get the TIW report for missiles or has that been shelved due to the persistant sonar problem?)

We have no TIWs for missile launches in this mod.

I think it's the way the game engine works. Anything thats a torpedo causes a TIW. ADCAPS, Skvalls, UUVs, anything that swims. I dont think it's possible to have a missile TIW, unless someone were to make a 'canister stage' that was considered a torpedo.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, would that be hard to do? We already have the launcher stange that drops the torpedo. How about a 'launch canister' that launches the missile when it hits the surface? If it's considered a torp, it should trigger a TIW.

LuftWolf · 08-28-05, 12:44 PM

The game is hardcoded to give TIW messages for weapons that are listed in the DB as "torpedo" weapons.

There is no underwater missile launch warning. SCS would have to hardcode that in the game.

Thank you for your feedback and suggestions!

Quote:

Anyway, I think you guys need to be clear about the objectives of all this.

From the readme:

Quote:

The purpose of this mod is, straightforwardly, to address the aspects of DW gameplay that
most bother its authors, while improving the simulation experience and fixing bugs, without
introducing any new ones.

SquidB · 08-29-05, 05:57 AM

Quote:

The purpose of this mod is, straightforwardly, to address the aspects of DW gameplay that
most bother its authors, while improving the simulation experience and fixing bugs, without
introducing any new ones.

I should of spotted that one....

LuftWolf · 08-29-05, 07:04 PM

Ok we have some things that we have to work out.

I would expect the next version within the next two weeks.

The changes involve ironing out some things with missile behavior and properly moddling the torpedos and seekers, which is something of an interesting task. :hmm:

In the mean time, I have listed all of the other db-value changes to CM's, SAD/MAD, and ADCAP/UGST in the thread, so you guys can make those changes yourself in the meantime if you want with the db editors.

You could PM me if you want me to email you the "unofficial" v1.025 database.

Edit: I suppose I could post the changes with an updated readme, but I hate to bother Bill with "minor stuff"... if you guys think its important enough to distribute a new version, then you can tell me.

Additional Edit: I think we can change the submarine passive sound levels too.

08-26-05, 04:54 PM	#1
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	The values I am changing are not relative values. They instruct the game to only display contacts to the sensor within a certain range of absolute depths. It is the same fix I applied to the persistent missile transients, lowering the detection altitudes of sonars to 10ft, just in reverse, raising the maximum detection depth of the mad and sad to 1000/750. The overall geometry is unaffected by the change. __________________ LW

08-26-05, 05:01 PM	#2
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	The biggest problem, is that AI platforms only have the MAD sensor, and that is tuned to 0, 1000, meaning your tactic wouldn't work. So, I have decided to change it to a SAD sensor in effect, with depth range -50 to -750 feet, to avoid AI aircraft dropping torpedos on overflown ships and to make it possible to avoid them. I am not sure if a crew would actually drop on a MAD only contact with no other confirmation, but I suppose its better this way to be sure. You guys can let me know if it would be better to have all AI MAD sensors behave like SAD sensors. __________________ LW

08-27-05, 01:58 AM	#6
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	LuftWolf and Amizaur. The Adcap and UGST range/speeds seem a good compromise for playability, especialy in MP. Now with powerfull 65 wakehomers and good missile transients we have a superior mod. which will make the sim much more playable and enjoyable. Thanks guys - magic. ......... :\|\ Bellman. __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

08-27-05, 03:04 PM	#7
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Upon further review, I have decided to set all SAD sensors and the AI MAD sensor to -750/-30ft, to prevent subs from avoiding detection at periscope depth. __________________ LW

08-28-05, 12:44 AM	#9
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	It would be nice to have some reports back from players using the mod in MP. I think its too early to draw any conclusions about play balance and to be fair to the modders they need feedback to make any adjustments /trims/corrections. PS. There are no TIWs (now/ever) in the mod. __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

08-26-05, 06:06 PM	#3
Amizaur Sonar Guy Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poland Posts: 398 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	What is difference between MAD and SAD ? :-)

08-26-05, 06:39 PM	#5
PeriscopeDepth Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,894 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I think even if you limit the AI to MAD they will still know it's a submarine and drop anywho.

08-27-05, 08:17 PM	#8
SquidB Engineer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Lytham UK Posts: 217 Downloads: 167 Uploads: 0	Guys this mods amazing. My favourite feature is the missile launch transients. Plus the fact that my Akula now doesnt carry imaginary weapons. (do we still get the TIW report for missiles or has that been shelved due to the persistant sonar problem?) Anyway, I think you guys need to be clear about the objectives of all this. I am all for a realisim mod, I think that as far as MP play balance goes SCS had its pretty bang on. If i want a fair one on one fight ill play DW vanilla. If I want a realistic reflection of what a russian sub can or cant do then ill go with an informed mod such as this. Ill adapt my tactics accordingly, and sometimes it can be intresting in the underdog in a combat sim. Well keep up the good work, dont worry about play balance, just try to make it as real as you can.

08-28-05, 07:54 AM	#10
Mau Sonar Guy Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 382 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Are we saying that there are no missile inbound indication anymore? That would not be good?

08-29-05, 07:04 PM	#15
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Ok we have some things that we have to work out. I would expect the next version within the next two weeks. The changes involve ironing out some things with missile behavior and properly moddling the torpedos and seekers, which is something of an interesting task. :hmm: In the mean time, I have listed all of the other db-value changes to CM's, SAD/MAD, and ADCAP/UGST in the thread, so you guys can make those changes yourself in the meantime if you want with the db editors. You could PM me if you want me to email you the "unofficial" v1.025 database. Edit: I suppose I could post the changes with an updated readme, but I hate to bother Bill with "minor stuff"... if you guys think its important enough to distribute a new version, then you can tell me. Additional Edit: I think we can change the submarine passive sound levels too. __________________ LW