A few new ideas

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Fidd

That's a lot more detailed, but it's broadly in agreement with what I stated, namely that DC attacks went on for much longer than is typical in game, and often cause involuntary surfacing, either because of non-lethal cumulative damage, or because of loss of depth control due same.

Hi, note there was no involuntary surfacing, in the 3 examples above, the skipper ordered the boat to surface.

Again, based on the data, most DC attacks were dangerous, in the 11 examples I cited above 8 U-Boats were sunk or heavily damaged.

Another way to look at this is U-47 under Prien was depth charged 4 times in 39-41 and was sunk the 4th time. The U-99 under Kretschmer and U-100 under Schepke were each depth charged 3 times and sunk the 3rd time. U-567 under Endrass was sunk the 1st time it was depth charged. These were all U-Boat aces who knew how to handle their boats.

The reality is that escorts with well trained crews and working as a team generally had no problem holding a sub on sonar under good sound conditions and could generally inflict serious damage to the sub. When you see an attack stretching out for hours, it is usually because the escort is having trouble finding the U-boat because of poor sound conditions, poorly trained crews, escorts working alone, etc which would have been the case during the "Happy Times" in last six months of 1940.

When you look at the careers of most successful U-Boat aces, you see they managed to survive a long time by sinking unescorted ships and staying well away from the escorts when they attacked convoys.

Now in game, yes, there should be a good chance that an escort can heavily damage/sink the boat if it finds you and attacks you. That is realistic and makes the game more interesting. Note that current behaviour is still early access since revisiting U-boat damage is on the development roadmap.

[Fidd]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Hi, note there was no involuntary surfacing, in the 3 examples above, the skipper ordered the boat to surface.

If the boat has suffered damage where the boat has to surface, then whether the captain orders the precise moment or manner of it's doing so is besides the point. That is an involuntary surfacing. The same applies to one forced to surface for want of oxygen, one with chlorine spreading from the battery compartments and so forth. As RN destroyers (and aircraft) attacked until a particular u-boat was demonstrably sunk, or it's ammunition was expended, this was not uncommon.

My general point here is that a contact was not captured once, depth-charged once and then assumed to be sunk with the escort then returning to the convoy; which is what currently happens in game. If a u-boat did go down to 185m, it would become very difficult to hit, because of the interval in time between the asdic contact being lost, and the escort firing the charges, and for those charges reaching the u-boats depth, if indeed they were fused as far down as that depth. On the other hand, even a near miss at that depth would potentially much more damage as a much shallower DC.

[Fidd]

20. Reworking of attenuation. I think attenuation within a metal-hulled u-boat is overdone currently. It should be like farting in church - loud and heard over considerable distance, given the acoustics of such an environment. I really like the the idea of attenuation, but for example, it's over done in the case of say the conning tower to the control room where intervening hatches are open. Naturally if doors or hatches are closed, then that's a completely different situation. So I think that voices should carry well to the adjacent compartment unless if no intervening hatch is open, likewise louder sounds: the e-motor, torpedo reloading winches (one day) the diesels should be heard more or less throughout the boat, if all the hatches/doors are open.

EDIT: To clarify, what I meant here is that the attenuation (reduction of volume with distance/intervening bulkheads etc) is basically fine, but the reverberation is massively overdone.

[Fidd]

21. Huff-Duff (High Frequency DF)
Whenever the radio is used, there should be a % risk per character sent, of escorts getting a bearing of the transmitting u-boat. After a short interval, (where the escorts would share the frequency being used by the u-boat and it's approximate DF bearing) any further transmissions would have a higher % per character of being detected. If a second DF bearing is gained by the escorts, a tribal or Bittern is sent at full-speed to that fixed position, and there executes an asdic search, and opens fire if the u-boat is on the surface. If the escort makes no contact at the DF'd position, it returns at full-speed to the convoy. Not more than two escorts at a time would be detached.

Not sure when "Huff-Duff" was implemented? I hope eventually that the game will model the technical progress for both u-boats and escorts, and the counter-measures of each....

[Fidd]

22. Crouching/kneeling/Sitting position?

In the aft torpedo room there's provision for a torpedo to be in the ready to load cradle, however it's not present, unlike the single torpedo in the forward torpedo room. The reason for this is, I believe, because the (standing) chief would not be squeeze between it and the e-motor controls either side?

It would be nice, if eventually the lifting cradles operated to retrieve under-floor and their associated lateral worm-gear to bring them to a ready to load condition for a particular tube. It's forseeable that one day there might be a playable torpedo operator in the torpedo rooms, operating the loading kit, setting gyro angles, and firing torpedo's according to whatever signalling system the Germans used. In order to be able to do that, some means of "wriggling around obstacles" or alternate viewing angles from poses (seated/crouched etc) maybe required to allow torpedo settings and e motor controls and dials to be seen whilst "ready to load torpedoes" are hanging on the cradle, in any of the positions for forward or aft tubes?

Other possibilties are for the sonar/radioman, and chief to adopt sitting positions in chairs or platforms where these exist.

[Fidd]

23. Rework of crush-depth, incremental damage/flooding from deep operation and session randomisation.

One of the weaker areas of this game, if I may be permitted to suggest it, is the reliability with which all manner of dangerous manoeuvres or assumptions may be made, because "values are known". Examples of this are visual ranges, where escorts may safely be regarded as unable to see you, crush depth, ability to drop to 185m and be unlocatable by enemy hydrophones and so forth.

I think the game needs more randomisation, within a wider set of values, so that these assumptions about how deep the u-boat may safely dive, where you can and cannot be seen, and the AI of DCing are made more "fluffy" as values.

For example, if "the ability for the AI to see" xyz was semi-random to a degree, then it'd no longer be possible to rely absolutely that an escort has not seen you because you're at such and such a range.

Similarly, to my mind, I'd like to see semi-random small leak events occurring in the boat as the boat gets below the semi-random crush-depth of that u-boat on that play-session. Meaning that it'd no longer be possible to dive the boat to 10m above the known crush-depth with no complicating issues of leaks, and without the certainty of the crush depth.....

Taking out these predictable behaviours and predictable sight ranges, crush depths, noise acquisition ranges etc will I think improve the game in the long term. Currently, as things stand, once you've mastered roles, and have learned "the values" of the things I cite above, it really removes any scope for further interest in the game. Which need not be the case....

[Adriatico]

Is the single player going to be somewhat simplified in u-boat management... with some less entertaining activities&procedures to set to simplified or automatic ?
(20% closer towards Silent hunter 3/4/5 gameplay)



I am fanatic of Submarine single player sims (veteran player) but I guess that 60% of market is horrified by the obligation to gather a team of players each time they want to play and enjoy the adventure.
(Family people, working people, elderly fans, non English speaking players...) could simply avoid the game - that would force them to torture themselves with gathering a team.