SH2: A Classic or Simply Nostalgia?

[Thomsen2002]

I just re-installed the game, searched out my mods CD, and went back to it. This game COULD have been a classic, but we will never know.

Of all the wargames I've played, this one is a singular example of a failed idea that was made playable by the gamers themselves.

Call me crazy if you wish, but I just spent a couple of hours reconstructing this just to experience the feel of getting back onto the conning tower, and looking out to sea.

I don't think this game is dead. All it needs is a little kickstart.

I started out here 5 years ago. Not sure if that makes me one of "The Old Guard", but I recall Sailor Steve and Palindromeria and Seeadler and Laf and Sergbuto and Hitman and Adam Warren and others -- YOU were the people that kept this game alive.

To all of you, I just wanted to say thanks for your efforts. I didn't do much -- I was basically just a cheerleader and an historical fan.

Just thought I'd surface to say that you folks are a special breed .

"Hail and victory and good hunting"

Regards to you all,

Thomsen (Glenn Higginbotham)

[Hitman]

Hi Thomsen,

Nice to see you again you old wolf There's still some of us around here, though no longer playing SH2.

A classic? Mmmmm...SH2 will probably remembered always as a classic in that it was the only modern sim about german subs available during a long time, after the glorious era of AOD and SH1. It was a transition and it had lots of shortcomings, but it opened the pace for SH3 & SH4, showing UBI and other companies that there is life beyond 1st person shooting games and flight sims.

The main problem with SH2 was probably that we all expected too much from it. If you accepted its unchangeable shortcomings -scripted campaign- you don't really have a bad sim at all.

[horsa]

What a refreshing thread

I suspect you are right .... there is a liberal streak of nostalgia running through this, but since when has that been such a bad thing.

I have to toss DC into this arena because together IMHO they make up a complete naval experience that I've yet to find in any other sim/game ( albeit in multiplay) Only Enigma RT has that kind of variety.

Classic ? Hmmmm .... it had some well documented frustrations ( red triangle, AI etc ) but I have to say I still "play" it as often as SH3. Not as pretty graphically but there was something about standing on the bridge in a bad sea that had a real gritty feel about it.

Hugely moddable, too .... with PA and Alpha Tau two good examples of what could be done. A pity DC never had a similar treatment .... its full potential was never realised.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Hitman

A classic? Mmmmm...SH2 will probably remembered always as a classic in that it was the only modern sim about german subs available during a long time, after the glorious era of AOD and SH1. It was a transition and it had lots of shortcomings, but it opened the pace for SH3 & SH4, showing UBI and other companies that there is life beyond 1st person shooting games and flight sims.

Well said, Hitman. I firmly believe if Troy Heere and Ultimation had not been able to deliver SH2, even with its shortcomings in campaign and AI, there would not have been an SH3, certainly not an SH4. Like you said, all one has to do is look around and see; other than MS's marque title Flightsim and Sonalysts' 688/Sub Command/DW franchise, there are no A-list tank, helo, or subsims being developed these days. No new Longbow, Comanche, Panzer Commander, Armored Fist, Wolfpack, Aces of the Deep, Fast Attack, …. only small studio projects. Silent Hunter 2 was very important to the subsim community, and the modders who kept it alive played a crucial role.

[Sailor Steve]

I loaded up SHII early last year, and found myself disappointed by the things SHIII has that it doesn't, and probably won't play it again.

BUT...

Once my situation allows I fully intend to try playing SHII and DC online again. I really miss that "me-against-you" feel.

And I guess Neal is right, if not for SHII we might well not be where we are today.

[Raptor]

Thompsen! You're still afloat.

Some of us are still around and still playing SH2 on a monthly single-mission basis.

The Atlantik Kampaign is still running strong and in it's second tour of the Battle of the Atlantic. Mission 11 was just issued 01 Jan 2007. Come join us via the website http://www.geocities.com/atlantikcampaign and visit the forum at http://s2.invisionfree.com/Atlantik_Campaign/index.php

Raiders of the Deep is still running, albeit somewhat erratically. http://www.raiders-of-the-deep.com/Raiders_01.html

Salute!

[nedwreck]

It's on my laptop along with Destroyer Command. I found them bundled at CompUSA for $5.00 a few years ago. My laptop wouldn't run SHIII with 2 gigs of memory. I still play it. It's still fun.

Bob

[Blarg]

SH2.

Strange to admit it, but I am playing it happily, more often than SH3 and SH4 at present. To explain, it seems that SH2 calls upon the imagination in a way that I find appealing. The iconic Hitman and Horsa as you can easily gather from reading here, rstill support players with questions, and Pacific Aces is a wonderful variation. I play it alternately with SH2, and consider it the best, personally.

Why do I still play SH2? Quirky reasons I guess.

The unseen crew seems more "real" in my mind than the disturbingly odd and puppetlike simulacra that represent the current representations of crew in the later iterations. How compromised these are will only truly be clear in some years, when computer graphics will fulfill its promised potential, offering modeling so lifelike as to appear cinematic,and the illusion breaking dissonance of this level of rendering will be an artifact chuckled over by digital historians. And no doubt remembered fondly by many members of the SUBSIM forums.

Granted, the subs and ships etc. are better looking by far in the more recent versions, and they are overall in many ways better, but in SH2 I still very much enjoy the atmospheric scoring of the music and the tone or "feel" of the GUI. It sets a nice mood, and I find the this game always comfortable and enjoyable on a second screen while plugging away at other tasks, map view on, and waiting for the cry of "Ship Spotted!"

[horsa]

Why do I still play SH2? Quirky reasons I guess.

Not as quirky as you suggest. This is a very valid point that gets my support. I think that graphic content/capability often gets confused with what might be called “atmosphere”. Conventional wisdom says that more detailed and rich graphics equals more atmosphere. I suppose the assumption is that the richness of detail is bringing us closer to the real thing. But the opposite is often true. It’s a bit like Radio and Television. TV has sound AND vision whereas Radio has only sound. Seemingly no contest, but then why didn’t TV kill off Radio completely?
Answer - some things work better on Radio because leaving a bit to the imagination can be better than spelling it out, badly . In SH3/4 it’s supposed that adding crew must be better than no crew at all, but you’ve clearly recognised, Blarg, that crew looking like Thunderbird puppets don’t necessarily do us any favours in the atmosphere department. Now, none of this is the fault of the devs. They are almost certainly being driven by the marketing guys who in turn are picking up the need to include these features from the paying public.

Let me add a couple of others.

It’s also assumed that 3D interiors are a smart move forward – after all real life is in 3D, so it must be good. Trouble is video cards/computer capability are still not that good. What it’s made SH3/4 do is substitute boring old 2D graphics which can be photo realistic with apparently more exciting “lets have a good look around” 3D graphics that can’t even come within spitting distance of that sort of quality . In fact they are clearly so artificial that the old atmosphere thing suffers yet another kick. After the initial novelty, I wonder what proportion of playing time is actually spent in these crewed 3D interiors rather than the 2D interfaces that actually give you a relatively real feel of submarine instruments.

Now, who’s going to admit to the next one without risking ridicule and scorn - – are the highly detailed models actually more atmospheric than the chunkier ones in SH2/DC ? There are some things that modern graphics do really well and SH3/4 has them in spades - Water, Smoke, Explosions, Sunsets, Sunrises and Lens Flares. No argument there. But, and this is a big but in my mind, the beautiful detailed models of games like SH3/4 can serve only to emphasise that they ARE computer generated models. Often when I look at them, all I can see is really well made toys. The smudgy, chunky , boringly textured models of SH2/DC, when seen at a distance, actually remind me more of vintage war footage. I have to admit that, up close and personal, SH2/DC models look ugly, whereas the more detailed SH3/4 models look rather smart. Nevertheless I cannot help but feel that a lot of the modelling expertise has been channelled towards this relatively infrequent and artificial close up experience.

None of this is going to wash with most folk, of course - SH3/4 has a better featured and designed gameplay anyway, and the graphic richness I’ve outlined is an unstoppable trend, but I personally have no difficulty in often preferring good old fashioned dated SH2/DC.

[Lagger123987]

SH2 is a poop game, bad graphics.

[Blarg]

Originally Posted by Lagger123987

SH2 is a poop game, bad graphics.

As was said, exceptions do not prove the rule. lagger's summation reinforces this truism neatly.

[horsa]

SH2 is a poop game, bad graphics.

Disagree

See, I can do it too.