[WIP] Japanese Merchant Marine - Page 7

keltos01 · 08-31-10, 10:23 AM

do you know, as they had AA merchant gunships platforms, if they also had sonars and dcs on some merchies ?

keltos

tater · 08-31-10, 10:46 AM

Yes to both. Hydrophones were widespread, as were DCs. The trick with the DCs is that they did not "aim" them, but rather just dropped them randomly when they knew ( thought) a sub was around.

In SH4, only unit types 0-4 will use DCs. What I'd like is a way to have them drop them randomly when "warned" of a sub.

Sailor Steve · 08-31-10, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Yes to both. Hydrophones were widespread, as were DCs. The trick with the DCs is that they did not "aim" them, but rather just dropped them randomly when they knew a sub was around.

In SH4, only unit types 0-4 will use DCs. What I'd like is a way to have them drop them randomly when "warned" of a sub.

That reminds me of a completely unrelated story. Back during the American Civil War the Union was blockading the mouth of the Mississippi river. The Confederates launched a night attack, and in the pitch black one Union ship reported that they started "firing for effect", which seems to imply that they shot blindly into the dark hoping to maybe hit something.

So it relates because I can picture the Japanese merchants dropping depth charges "for effect".

tater · 08-31-10, 11:24 AM

For effect means they have the target range. It means they are expecting to hit. Before firing for effect, they'd be ranging.

tater · 08-31-10, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

I have been taking a look at the pictures. May be, just may be, the hulls are easy enough for me to rework an existing one in Misfit 3D. However, what I can't do is retexture them, but if I understood it correctly, Sergei can.

The only flush-deck merchant we have to start with is War Melody. She'd need to be scaled down slightly I think.

The hard part on all these is the superstructure, actually. I an getting better with delftship, I think I can make decent hulls if need be.

I'm getting better with wings 3d, too. It's SLOW, though. And yes, sergei I count on sergei to be able to make maps, that part confuses me to no end.

tater · 08-31-10, 12:38 PM

War Melody is too pointy, needs to be a more bluff bow.

keltos01 · 08-31-10, 02:22 PM

Do plan to make the AA gunship that sometimes escorted convoys ?

keltos

tater · 08-31-10, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keltos01

Do plan to make the AA gunship that sometimes escorted convoys ?

keltos

XPGs? Possibly a later release. The trouble with that would be that the only gunboat used in RSRDC could be replaced (it doesn't look right, anyway). If I did that, then I'd simply make a new ship with the same name.

To get variants would mean major campaign changes (something I don't want to do).

For stock... quite frankly, I won't be putting 5 seconds into anything for the stock campaign—so anyone using the stock campaign will be SOL. It would be pointless anyway, as you'd have no way to assign them to convoys unless you called them DDs—then they'd show in IJN TFs, too.

keltos01 · 08-31-10, 03:11 PM

darn I can't seem to find it anymore... it was a merchant ship retrofitted into an AA platform, I think they built 4 of them, and they were designed as convoy escorts, basically a merchant with a whole bunch of AA guns.

keltos

tater · 08-31-10, 03:27 PM

Frankly, it's a low priority. Players command submarines. AA platforms? Meh.

I try to think the way I think the devs SHOULD HAVE. "Bang for the buck."

Make a new ship? What ship is MOST NEEDED?

Any hull with less than 30-40 examples is not work much effort. Perhaps it might make the top 100 needed vessels, but it's near the bottom of that list. See what I mean?

In terms of warships, the most needed are REAL Kaibokan (the Type B, C, and D I did for RSRDC are "acceptable" but that's about it.). We also need a real Matsu.

keltos01 · 08-31-10, 03:36 PM

yep. just saying if you come across one of those I'm interrested in any intel.
I did the same for the subs : most numerous class first.

regards

keltos

Sailor Steve · 08-31-10, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

For effect means they have the target range. It means they are expecting to hit. Before firing for effect, they'd be ranging.

I know what it means now - I worked on the gun line in Vietnam. The problem was these were smoothbore cannon with an effective range of maybe 200 yards, and it was described as a pitch-black night, and other reports said they couldn't see anything; hence my amusement.

More on-topic: I think this is a great project.

virtualpender · 08-31-10, 04:25 PM

Whoa! Just came across a startling number that may add a new priority to this project. From December 1942 through the end of the war, the Japanese built 2,278 standard wooden sea trucks of the 100-, 150-, and 250-ton variety.

I knew it was a lot but that is a startling number - almost as many as U.S. LIBERTY ships. Definitely should be a large percentage of the in-game contacts from mid '44 forward.

PS: Tater - I know these are your images - just posting here for others.

virtualpender · 08-31-10, 04:58 PM

tater · 08-31-10, 05:04 PM

Yeah, I know the biggest are the sugar dogs, but for submarine targets, slightly larger hulls are better. Remember that to slide into the campaign, they need to be type 101 (tanker) or type 102 (cargo).

Throw sugar dogs in there, and we'd pretty much have to call them type 104. As type=1022 they don't work (they would foul up convoys, etc). They won't be seen in game in any numbers unless we also make all the traffic. If you look at my old posts, I've been pitching them for a while, but I now think ~1000 tons is the smallest to be on the first order list (The type 2E at 873 grt).

A nice thing about the 2E and 2D (2300 tons) is they look nearly identical.

08-31-10, 10:23 AM	#91
keltos01 Silent Hunter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Milan Italy Posts: 4,999 Downloads: 114 Uploads: 18	do you know, as they had AA merchant gunships platforms, if they also had sonars and dcs on some merchies ? keltos __________________ "Honorable Builder of Sinking Ships"

08-31-10, 10:46 AM	#92
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yes to both. Hydrophones were widespread, as were DCs. The trick with the DCs is that they did not "aim" them, but rather just dropped them randomly when they knew ( thought) a sub was around. In SH4, only unit types 0-4 will use DCs. What I'd like is a way to have them drop them randomly when "warned" of a sub. Last edited by tater; 08-31-10 at 11:01 AM.

08-31-10, 02:22 PM	#97
keltos01 Silent Hunter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Milan Italy Posts: 4,999 Downloads: 114 Uploads: 18	Do plan to make the AA gunship that sometimes escorted convoys ? keltos __________________ "Honorable Builder of Sinking Ships"

08-31-10, 03:11 PM	#99
keltos01 Silent Hunter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Milan Italy Posts: 4,999 Downloads: 114 Uploads: 18	darn I can't seem to find it anymore... it was a merchant ship retrofitted into an AA platform, I think they built 4 of them, and they were designed as convoy escorts, basically a merchant with a whole bunch of AA guns. keltos __________________ "Honorable Builder of Sinking Ships"

08-31-10, 03:36 PM	#101
keltos01 Silent Hunter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Milan Italy Posts: 4,999 Downloads: 114 Uploads: 18	yep. just saying if you come across one of those I'm interrested in any intel. I did the same for the subs : most numerous class first. regards keltos __________________ "Honorable Builder of Sinking Ships"

08-31-10, 11:24 AM	#94
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	For effect means they have the target range. It means they are expecting to hit. Before firing for effect, they'd be ranging.

08-31-10, 12:38 PM	#96
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	War Melody is too pointy, needs to be a more bluff bow.

08-31-10, 03:27 PM	#100
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Frankly, it's a low priority. Players command submarines. AA platforms? Meh. I try to think the way I think the devs SHOULD HAVE. "Bang for the buck." Make a new ship? What ship is MOST NEEDED? Any hull with less than 30-40 examples is not work much effort. Perhaps it might make the top 100 needed vessels, but it's near the bottom of that list. See what I mean? In terms of warships, the most needed are REAL Kaibokan (the Type B, C, and D I did for RSRDC are "acceptable" but that's about it.). We also need a real Matsu.

08-31-10, 04:25 PM	#103
virtualpender Sonar Guy Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 381 Downloads: 281 Uploads: 0	Whoa! Just came across a startling number that may add a new priority to this project. From December 1942 through the end of the war, the Japanese built *2,278* standard wooden sea trucks of the 100-, 150-, and 250-ton variety. I knew it was a lot but that is a startling number - almost as many as U.S. LIBERTY ships. Definitely should be a large percentage of the in-game contacts from mid '44 forward. PS: Tater - I know these are your images - just posting here for others. Last edited by virtualpender; 08-31-10 at 04:39 PM.

08-31-10, 04:58 PM	#104
virtualpender Sonar Guy Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 381 Downloads: 281 Uploads: 0

08-31-10, 05:04 PM	#105
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yeah, I know the biggest are the sugar dogs, but for submarine targets, slightly larger hulls are better. Remember that to slide into the campaign, they need to be type 101 (tanker) or type 102 (cargo). Throw sugar dogs in there, and we'd pretty much have to call them type 104. As type=1022 they don't work (they would foul up convoys, etc). They won't be seen in game in any numbers unless we also make all the traffic. If you look at my old posts, I've been pitching them for a while, but I now think ~1000 tons is the smallest to be on the first order list (The type 2E at 873 grt). A nice thing about the 2E and 2D (2300 tons) is they look nearly identical.