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Raptor1 · 02-22-09, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JALU3

OMG WTF, what a blood bath that naval battle was. Nukes, and yet still no capitulation. Looks like Japan is going to be red. Now what about Manila, you got our boys there rotting in POW camps.

Manila? Where's that?...Oh, right, well, I'll get my conquering Soviet armies down there eventually...

joegrundman · 02-22-09, 07:13 AM

What are you going to do now, Raptor1? Declare war on the Kuomintang?

Raptor1 · 02-22-09, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegrundman

What are you going to do now, Raptor1? Declare war on the Kuomintang?

Could I do that?

JALU3 · 03-06-09, 05:40 AM

At this point what else will be red? Might as well start a secondary game, where the Soviets turn against their former allies, they appear to be unstoppable!

Raptor1 · 03-06-09, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JALU3

At this point what else will be red? Might as well start a secondary game, where the Soviets turn against their former allies, they appear to be unstoppable!

Why would I need to backstab the Allies? I already have most of the middle east, Eastern Europe, the Balkans, 3/4 of Germany, Manchuria and Korea

If anybody is going to start another war, it's the Allies

joegrundman · 03-06-09, 05:54 AM

In fact the game does permit the allies to attack each other, but the rules stipulate this is only allowed after the axis are finally defeated. Don't see why that should be the case though, and as Raptor suggests, Uncle Joe has had a good war, and may well get Hokkaido out of it too.

JALU3 · 03-07-09, 07:42 AM

Might as well take Honshu while you're at it, the allies are slow in the south. And then take Kyushu from the Korean Peninsula.

Does the game allow for Germany not to Attack Russia, and to continue on it's march towards Dehli via Cape Town?

Oberon · 03-07-09, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JALU3

Might as well take Honshu while you're at it, the allies are slow in the south. And then take Kyushu from the Korean Peninsula.

Does the game allow for Germany not to Attack Russia, and to continue on it's march towards Dehli via Cape Town?

Regrettably war with Russia is pretty inevitable once you start making big gains, the Russian/German tension index slowly climbs up and when it gets to the right point, blam, you have several million angry Communists at your door. That's why I attacked early, try to catch them while they're weak. I made the fatal mistake of ignoring the UK though

joegrundman · 03-07-09, 08:21 AM

The game doesn't permit a German attack on India, and i think it should and would be easy to "mod' in our parlance.

It would only ever arise in rare situations, and as Oberon suggests, at great risk of leaving yourself vulnerable to a fully mobilised Russia, but i think you could easily say that German units on the eastern edge of Persia can attrition the India box in the same way as Japanese units do when they are on the western edge of the pacific mapboard.

and then after an indian surrender, german units could redeploy via the India box into the pacific in the same way that russians do through the Urals box and the allies do with the South Africa/Australia boxes.

it could be done without distorting the game framework, and seems perfectly plausible (plausibility is very important in this game). Even if it happened, i expect Germany would be reluctant to send more than a handful of units to help Japan directly. The mere fact of Indian surrender is more helpful for Japan.

There are many strategies open that do not involve an attack on Russia, but the game always eventually permits a fully mobilised Russia, with a large economy to attack Germany, and that attack is tough to defend against and starts close to the German border and Rumanian oil fields

However, if the British have already surrendered by then, it's possible for a very strong Wehrmacht defense to stalemate the Red Army, trading offensive punches to ride out the game.

If Russia surrenders heavily (as in not just a ceasefire), it's almost impossible for the allies to defeat Germany, and this reality makes a strong barbarossa the overall favourite strategy

Raptor1 · 03-07-09, 01:36 PM

I was wondering about Germany going for a Russia-first strategy, where the Germans dow the Russians on the first turn instead of invading France

Obviously that would leave the Allies clear to move in as many units as they can, but assuming Germany can take out the completely unmobilized Russia before they manage to push through...

JALU3 · 03-07-09, 05:15 PM

The UK, has always detested a strong single power in Mainland Europe, and has had a fluid ally set up historically to deal with whom ever it looked like was going to be that one nation/empire, that is if you were to listen to Kissinger's assessment of history.

So if they saw a strong Germany, as their main threat, they would actively/inactively work against it. I guess with any central/eastern European power, you're always dealing with a multi-front situation. The question is can you mobilize enough manpower to defend on oneside, and attack on the other. Is there are French tension chart, which ramps up like Russia? If there isn't ... as I imagine there is a British one, it would make sence to go a Russia first strategy, making a run for the Urals as Germany. For as long as the War weary British are placated, they would be a non-issue. And once they are stirred up, they would only have limited routes which to launch an offensive against Germany, especially if other mainland powers were cowarded by Germany not to allow them access to ports or beachheads.

joegrundman · 03-07-09, 07:09 PM

There's no France or Britain tension table since the game begins with Britain and France at war with Germany.

A Russia-first strategy is indeed viable, but it's not a magic bullet. Free for a few turns, Britain's economy becomes really quite strong and mobilisation proceeds rapidly. Germany must perforce leave a sizeable portion of the army facing France, and Italy cannot defend North Africa against an economically strong Britain and France.

By the time the US joins the war, western europe will normally be well in hand, and although Russia will be in very poor shape, the major offensives will start very close to the German border.

As before, a sudden victory over Russia, can change things. If the victory happens in 1941 there can be time for an offensive against France before America has mobilised sufficiently to help stop the tide.

JALU3 · 03-13-09, 07:03 AM

US just taking it on the nose their, getting their face pounded in. By the time they get to the Japanese Islands, they'll be lucky if they get the Oshima.

Oberon · 03-13-09, 08:18 AM

The US did fantastic in Europe once they got a foothold in Portugal, although this perhaps has something to do with the fact that their enemy was stuck in a war on two fronts, but the real winner of this round is going to be the Soviets. They have just steamrollered everything in sight, they are truely terrifying.

joegrundman · 03-13-09, 08:57 AM

It's true, the US is taking a lot of punishment, but there's a reason for it. The time pressure has compelled the US to eschew the island hopping strategy and opt instead for a frontal assault strategy.

The island hopping strategy, both historically (i think) and in this game, means that every US op is under land based air cover, which is very important to counterbalance the fact that Japan on the defensive is ALWAYS under land based air cover. Land based air means you get advantages in search and surprise, as well as an extra layer of protection. The offensive aspect of LBA is less significant.

Instead, the US has been having to attack beyond air cover and depend on sheer numbers for success under enemy land based air. Success comes, but at a much higher price.

02-22-09, 07:13 AM	#17
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	What are you going to do now, Raptor1? Declare war on the Kuomintang? __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

03-06-09, 05:40 AM	#19
JALU3 Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2007 Location: 11SMS 98896 10565 Posts: 756 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	At this point what else will be red? Might as well start a secondary game, where the Soviets turn against their former allies, they appear to be unstoppable! __________________ "The Federation needs men like you, doctor. Men of conscience. Men of principle. Men who can sleep at night... You're also the reason Section Thirty-one exists -- someone has to protect men like you from a universe that doesn't share your sense of right and wrong." -Sloan, Section Thirty-One

03-06-09, 05:54 AM	#21
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	In fact the game does permit the allies to attack each other, but the rules stipulate this is only allowed after the axis are finally defeated. Don't see why that should be the case though, and as Raptor suggests, Uncle Joe has had a good war, and may well get Hokkaido out of it too. __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

03-07-09, 07:42 AM	#22
JALU3 Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2007 Location: 11SMS 98896 10565 Posts: 756 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Might as well take Honshu while you're at it, the allies are slow in the south. And then take Kyushu from the Korean Peninsula. Does the game allow for Germany not to Attack Russia, and to continue on it's march towards Dehli via Cape Town? __________________ "The Federation needs men like you, doctor. Men of conscience. Men of principle. Men who can sleep at night... You're also the reason Section Thirty-one exists -- someone has to protect men like you from a universe that doesn't share your sense of right and wrong." -Sloan, Section Thirty-One

03-07-09, 08:21 AM	#24
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	The game doesn't permit a German attack on India, and i think it should and would be easy to "mod' in our parlance. It would only ever arise in rare situations, and as Oberon suggests, at great risk of leaving yourself vulnerable to a fully mobilised Russia, but i think you could easily say that German units on the eastern edge of Persia can attrition the India box in the same way as Japanese units do when they are on the western edge of the pacific mapboard. and then after an indian surrender, german units could redeploy via the India box into the pacific in the same way that russians do through the Urals box and the allies do with the South Africa/Australia boxes. it could be done without distorting the game framework, and seems perfectly plausible (plausibility is very important in this game). Even if it happened, i expect Germany would be reluctant to send more than a handful of units to help Japan directly. The mere fact of Indian surrender is more helpful for Japan. There are many strategies open that do not involve an attack on Russia, but the game always eventually permits a fully mobilised Russia, with a large economy to attack Germany, and that attack is tough to defend against and starts close to the German border and Rumanian oil fields However, if the British have already surrendered by then, it's possible for a very strong Wehrmacht defense to stalemate the Red Army, trading offensive punches to ride out the game. If Russia surrenders heavily (as in not just a ceasefire), it's almost impossible for the allies to defeat Germany, and this reality makes a strong barbarossa the overall favourite strategy __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

03-07-09, 01:36 PM	#25
Raptor1 Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Stavka Posts: 8,211 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	I was wondering about Germany going for a Russia-first strategy, where the Germans dow the Russians on the first turn instead of invading France Obviously that would leave the Allies clear to move in as many units as they can, but assuming Germany can take out the completely unmobilized Russia before they manage to push through... __________________ Current Eastern Front status: Probable Victory

03-07-09, 05:15 PM	#26
JALU3 Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2007 Location: 11SMS 98896 10565 Posts: 756 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The UK, has always detested a strong single power in Mainland Europe, and has had a fluid ally set up historically to deal with whom ever it looked like was going to be that one nation/empire, that is if you were to listen to Kissinger's assessment of history. So if they saw a strong Germany, as their main threat, they would actively/inactively work against it. I guess with any central/eastern European power, you're always dealing with a multi-front situation. The question is can you mobilize enough manpower to defend on oneside, and attack on the other. Is there are French tension chart, which ramps up like Russia? If there isn't ... as I imagine there is a British one, it would make sence to go a Russia first strategy, making a run for the Urals as Germany. For as long as the War weary British are placated, they would be a non-issue. And once they are stirred up, they would only have limited routes which to launch an offensive against Germany, especially if other mainland powers were cowarded by Germany not to allow them access to ports or beachheads. __________________ "The Federation needs men like you, doctor. Men of conscience. Men of principle. Men who can sleep at night... You're also the reason Section Thirty-one exists -- someone has to protect men like you from a universe that doesn't share your sense of right and wrong." -Sloan, Section Thirty-One

03-07-09, 07:09 PM	#27
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	There's no France or Britain tension table since the game begins with Britain and France at war with Germany. A Russia-first strategy is indeed viable, but it's not a magic bullet. Free for a few turns, Britain's economy becomes really quite strong and mobilisation proceeds rapidly. Germany must perforce leave a sizeable portion of the army facing France, and Italy cannot defend North Africa against an economically strong Britain and France. By the time the US joins the war, western europe will normally be well in hand, and although Russia will be in very poor shape, the major offensives will start very close to the German border. As before, a sudden victory over Russia, can change things. If the victory happens in 1941 there can be time for an offensive against France before America has mobilised sufficiently to help stop the tide. __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

03-13-09, 07:03 AM	#28
JALU3 Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2007 Location: 11SMS 98896 10565 Posts: 756 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	US just taking it on the nose their, getting their face pounded in. By the time they get to the Japanese Islands, they'll be lucky if they get the Oshima. __________________ "The Federation needs men like you, doctor. Men of conscience. Men of principle. Men who can sleep at night... You're also the reason Section Thirty-one exists -- someone has to protect men like you from a universe that doesn't share your sense of right and wrong." -Sloan, Section Thirty-One

03-13-09, 08:18 AM	#29
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	The US did fantastic in Europe once they got a foothold in Portugal, although this perhaps has something to do with the fact that their enemy was stuck in a war on two fronts, but the real winner of this round is going to be the Soviets. They have just steamrollered everything in sight, they are truely terrifying.

03-13-09, 08:57 AM	#30
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	It's true, the US is taking a lot of punishment, but there's a reason for it. The time pressure has compelled the US to eschew the island hopping strategy and opt instead for a frontal assault strategy. The island hopping strategy, both historically (i think) and in this game, means that every US op is under land based air cover, which is very important to counterbalance the fact that Japan on the defensive is ALWAYS under land based air cover. Land based air means you get advantages in search and surprise, as well as an extra layer of protection. The offensive aspect of LBA is less significant. Instead, the US has been having to attack beyond air cover and depend on sheer numbers for success under enemy land based air. Success comes, but at a much higher price. __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill