Strike on North Korea

[Reece]

Originally Posted by eddie

Don't worry Oberon, our Commander-in-Chief will handle North Korea without a problem! I mean, what could go wrong!?!

That's one ugly sob!!

[STEED]

I'm with Ripley on this one.

[Jimbuna]

No point using nukes because the biggest cockroach of them all would probably survive and besides, why should the oppressed people of NK take the brunt?

[Rockstar]

Ya know there is a government that demands its 25 million person population to look upon it and its leader as divine and the source of all inspiration and tortures and kills all dissenters real or perceived. Now the god man of this cult has nuclear weapons and likes to threaten its primary benefactor and shoot them over sovereign nations.

Keep laughing, keep your head in the sand, and see where it leads if nothing is done about it. You think it would be bad now? Love how everyone jumps on the freedom and democracy bandwagon so long as its the other guy dying for it.

Sleep well now you wonderful defenders of freedom. lol

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC...quiryDPRK.aspx

[Oberon]

It's all fun and games until it isn't the other guy dying for it, but you.

http://thediplomat.com/2017/09/us-sh...iefs-chairman/

How much is an American worth? More or less than a North Korean?

[mapuc]

Today I have read two things about NK

1. Some person from SK have said that they expect KJU to do some provocation around middle of October

2. According to NK's only press millions have joined the army to fight USA

Propaganda say SK.

Markus

[Oberon]

Moon wants out of the wartime OPCON:

https://www.voanews.com/a/south-kore...l/4047790.html

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Fatboy likes to break the rules; we can break a few of our own. One thing though: an international murder warrant should be issued for Kim over the assassination death of his half brother in Malaysia. Talk about 'loss of face'; should he leave to visit China, for example, his so-called diplomatic immunity will not apply and China must comply with the warrant or be exposed for showing its true colors. Their participation in the present economic sanctions is a complete fraud...easily circumvented along the common boarder. This is about China, not its patsy North Korea.

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

. He is an international thief and murderer (his half brother & illicit wire transfer of bitcoin and currency)...we should brook no further aggression based on the lessons already learned in the '40's and move to eradicate the problem permanently.

An interesting update in Malaysia: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41464331
The four North Koreans(handler) who fled Malaysia the day of the murder are also under indictment; so why not their 'fearless leader as well??!!

But now his death has been conclusively linked to the VX nerve agent. Most experts agree that the presence of VX means there is likely to be some kind of state connection to this killing. And North Korea does have institutions with the wherewithal to carry out such an attack.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39073839 Malaysia should spare the damsel-patsies and issue an international warrant against the DPRK's murderous leader. Both Malaysia and the DKRP have withdrawn their ambassadors over the murder. I'm under no illusion it could be served but it's loss-of-face political value branding 'revered leader' as a common murder suspect cannot hurt.

[Delgard]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Moon wants out of the wartime OPCON:

https://www.voanews.com/a/south-kore...l/4047790.html

They have always wanted, for the most part, wartime control and they are on a track for that through making certain "capabilities" are attained. One, for hypothetical example, is to have joint interoperability among all air defense systems. It is a lot better if a radar, any air defense radar, be able to communicate automatically with any air defense interdiction system. The Army has one system, the Navy another and the Air Force has their systems, and their own sets of radars. That lack of inter-operability would be a serious weakness.

There are also noticeable challenges with ground firing systems (missile/artillery) that I have read about.

The Ministry Of Defense and its Chiefs of Staff know of these types of weaknesses. THEY were the ones that pushed for the requirements to obtain certain capabilities before assuming a larger role. The government agreed and the Americans, as the UN senior representative, agreed to those requirements. I am not sure of all the requirements and I am not sure the scenario above is accurate, but I used it as an example.

As a student studying the Koreas, off and on, since I was there in the 80s, I understand that the citizens take their rights very seriously when it comes to social or economic development, not necessarily military development. Although, they are putting more monies to the military in the last few years under President Park. But, alas, she is gone and a former human rights lawyer was voted in. Pres. Moon may not be as wise to how things can change overnight, and, his chosen Ministers are not as hardline. The military leadership knows what direction they must take, but funding is not going sufficiently or quickly enough to enhance capabilities at the speed that NK is developing their missile systems.

KJU just takes the money from his citizens and SK can't just do that. SK has raised their defense budget a bit, but, a bit is not very much. Definitely not enough to keep up with NK's nuke missile program.

Another thing that I have learned about their OPCON is that they have full authorities for Phase 1 (prepare) and Phase 2 (defense reaction to limited incidents), but not for all out offensive war (Phase 3). I am not sure where the lines are drawn, that is probably a close-hold type of info.

Anyway, The news last year? said the SK "citizens" had a hissy-fit about such a radar system (THAAD) even being in their country. To deal with ballistic missiles, even short range ones, ya' got to have radars with certain capabilities.

I think their are many voices in SK and the ones that have the wisdom are being drowned out. But, then again, why would the North Koreans want to attack South Korea? North Korea has far more anger against another country.

Last I heard, the agreement is that the SK military has to have certain capabilities before Phase 3 can be implemented unilaterally. Their military wanted that to ensure no political shenanigans changed the standards.


The Diplomat is a decent reference. Some good newspapers, too.

[Delgard]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Ya know there is a government that demands its 25 million person population to look upon it and its leader as divine and the source of all inspiration and tortures and kills all dissenters real or perceived. Now the god man of this cult has nuclear weapons and likes to threaten its primary benefactor and shoot them over sovereign nations.

Keep laughing, keep your head in the sand, and see where it leads if nothing is done about it. You think it would be bad now? Love how everyone jumps on the freedom and democracy bandwagon so long as its the other guy dying for it.

Sleep well now you wonderful defenders of freedom. lol

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC...quiryDPRK.aspx

It may very well meet the requirements to be called a cult, but what can be done about it? Most cult leaders are pretty smart.

[Rockstar]

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Delgard

They have always wanted, for the most part, wartime control and they are on a track for that through making certain "capabilities" are attained. One, for hypothetical example, is to have joint interoperability among all air defense systems. It is a lot better if a radar, any air defense radar, be able to communicate automatically with any air defense interdiction system. The Army has one system, the Navy another and the Air Force has their systems, and their own sets of radars. That lack of inter-operability would be a serious weakness.

There are also noticeable challenges with ground firing systems (missile/artillery) that I have read about.

The Ministry Of Defense and its Chiefs of Staff know of these types of weaknesses. THEY were the ones that pushed for the requirements to obtain certain capabilities before assuming a larger role. The government agreed and the Americans, as the UN senior representative, agreed to those requirements. I am not sure of all the requirements and I am not sure the scenario above is accurate, but I used it as an example.

As a student studying the Koreas, off and on, since I was there in the 80s, I understand that the citizens take their rights very seriously when it comes to social or economic development, not necessarily military development. Although, they are putting more monies to the military in the last few years under President Park. But, alas, she is gone and a former human rights lawyer was voted in. Pres. Moon may not be as wise to how things can change overnight, and, his chosen Ministers are not as hardline. The military leadership knows what direction they must take, but funding is not going sufficiently or quickly enough to enhance capabilities at the speed that NK is developing their missile systems.

KJU just takes the money from his citizens and SK can't just do that. SK has raised their defense budget a bit, but, a bit is not very much. Definitely not enough to keep up with NK's nuke missile program.

Another thing that I have learned about their OPCON is that they have full authorities for Phase 1 (prepare) and Phase 2 (defense reaction to limited incidents), but not for all out offensive war (Phase 3). I am not sure where the lines are drawn, that is probably a close-hold type of info.

Anyway, The news last year? said the SK "citizens" had a hissy-fit about such a radar system (THAAD) even being in their country. To deal with ballistic missiles, even short range ones, ya' got to have radars with certain capabilities.

I think their are many voices in SK and the ones that have the wisdom are being drowned out. But, then again, why would the North Koreans want to attack South Korea? North Korea has far more anger against another country.

Last I heard, the agreement is that the SK military has to have certain capabilities before Phase 3 can be implemented unilaterally. Their military wanted that to ensure no political shenanigans changed the standards.


The Diplomat is a decent reference. Some good newspapers, too.

I do believe that they have put forward for an extension to the ballistic missile range limit in response to the DPRK tests, their current missiles and cruise missiles are quite good in the roles that they're designed for, to engage North Korean leadership and communication capabilities in a decapitation attempt.
Moon, I think, was a bit of a dreamer, I think he thought he could bring back the sunshine policy, but now I think he's beginning to realise that the DPRK is only interested in a negotiation that recognises its status as a nuclear power and does not seek to alter that status. It's possible that he hopes that he could do some business along those lines, but when Trump and Kim Jong-un are fighting, Moon is small fry, he has no real power, he can't alienate the US (no matter how much the US might try) but at the same time he can't unilaterally declare war on North Korea (although many of his generals would probably disagree).

Of course, the problem with missiles, and I think that this is something that the US is also going to run into in the not too distant future, is that it is more expensive to build missile defence than it is to build missile offense. Until we find a way to create some kind of cost parity, or make missile defence cheaper and more reliable, then you're always going to find the problem that the enemy has more missiles than you can intercept, especially if you're salvo firing them a few per missile to maximise the chances of a successful interception. The US is going to find that with the Hwasong-14, I believe that there has been a motion to increase the number of missiles at the GMD in Alaska, but that will take time and money to do, in the meantime once the DPRK has built more than 20 ICBMs then a nuclear strike on the US mainland becomes dramatically more likely to succeed.

Of course, what's not helping is the absolute chaos that is the US administration at the moment. I feel quite sorry for Tillerson, the guy really is trying, but his boss is not helping. Even if it is Trump trying to utilise the 'Crazy guy' strategy as some have supposed, he's not exactly doing it with any level of acumen.

Still, we'll see what transpires, I've seen reports that the DPRK has been shunting their missiles around, they took some out from their development site the other day, and people tend to think that October 10th might see some activity, it's Party Foundation Day in the DPRK and about a fortnight before the Japanese elections, so the likelihood of some kind of test happening around then is quite high. Exactly what the test will be is anyones best guess. I'm thinking a salvo of Hwasong-12s, myself, but they could up the ante and go for a full on Juche-bird...that would be quite terrifying.

[Delgard]

Oberon, I did not want to copy your message because mine was attached. It was getting big.

Anyway, helpful points.

I noticed that Tillerson was expressing that all things possible were being done, but that NK just didn't want to talk, which doesn't surprise my thoughts.

As to the President, he commented like a hardliner. I wish the SecDef would have expressed that since I see it as his lane. AND the President should speak a little less.

But, the world does see Tillerson as going more than halfway and that is a good card to have when talking to other pertinent countries on the issue. Trump, on the other hand spoke to KJU and his advisors and his words were that of an American cowboy. Kind of like Reagan.

I am understanding that launch sites are constantly changing and hide sites are plentiful. So, targeting them must be hard for any country. The mobile launchers pull out of a cave that has multiple entrances (and exits) and launch.

As to the ground game, they are so well dug in caves and the terrain is just very defense capable that going north will be very bloody on SK.

Anyway, time will tell.

Thanks

[Mr Quatro]

Only a mad man could speak like this ... They are warning us that if we don't go to war now they will unleash their arsenal of nuclear weapons sooner or later.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/10...s-chicken.html

North Korea threatened to bring “nuclear clouds” to Japan and mocked Prime Minister Shinzo Abe for acting like a “headless chicken” at the United Nations General Assembly when the leader urged U.N. members to force North Korea to end its nuclear and missile programs.

“Japan's such rackets inciting the tension of the Korean peninsula is a suicidal deed that will bring nuclear clouds to the Japanese archipelago,” the statement said. “No one knows when the touch-and-go situation will lead to a nuclear war, but if so, the Japanese archipelago will be engulfed in flames in a moment. This is too self-evident."

"The four islands of the archipelago should be sunken into the sea by the nuclear bomb of Juche. Japan is no longer needed to exist near us," KCNA said in another message.

[Jimbuna]

Talk is cheap but the price of such talk can sometimes amount to astronomical levels.