[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

I started to write my rebuttal for RR (which I've done in the past for the old wind bag) but I could see my post was getting as long winded as his........I just deleted it.

Want to "play" his way, you got it. Find the TMO 2.5 Hiryu Carrier with its mast height at 20 meters (65.5 ft) and fire away. You'll miss getting an accurate range to target by 50%. 'Cause, that's the way it's supposed to be!!

Yarrrrrrr!

[Laffertytig]

ok some observations from my 1st convoy contact.

encountered a convoy during daylight hours in light fog. I could see the ships but for some reason my watchmen couldn't? it was actually my sonar that detected them which I thought was very strange considering I was going at flank speed.

I thought sonar was only effective on the surface at slow speeds?

next thing I know a dd appears out of the fog and rams me, I click on the any visual contacts button and even more weirdly it still reports no contacts!

is the surface sonar a 2 way thing as in if the destoyers are moving slowly then will they always hear me on the surface and I them?

is this a mod conflict or did the dd detect me on the surface with sonar?

my mod list

tm2.5
longer sinking times tmo v2
improved stock env v3_TMO & RFB
ISE new clouds n waves
ISE realistic colours
TMO alt radar
TDV ship plane fire damage
guerrilla sub spyron mod (only affects campaign stuff)

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Laffertytig

ok some observations from my 1st convoy contact.

encountered a convoy during daylight hours in light fog. I could see the ships but for some reason my watchmen couldn't? it was actually my sonar that detected them which I thought was very strange considering I was going at flank speed.

I thought sonar was only effective on the surface at slow speeds?

next thing I know a dd appears out of the fog and rams me, I click on the any visual contacts button and even more weirdly it still reports no contacts!


is the surface sonar a 2 way thing as in if the destoyers are moving slowly then will they always hear me on the surface and I them?

is this a mod conflict or did the dd detect me on the surface with sonar?

my mod list

tm2.5
longer sinking times tmo v2
improved stock env v3_TMO & RFB
ISE new clouds n waves
ISE realistic colours
TMO alt radar
TDV ship plane fire damage
guerrilla sub spyron mod (only affects campaign stuff)

For one thing ANY environmental mod is going to nerf the carefully balanced visual and sonar settings of TMO. And ANY of them will do so in a bad way, not a good way. One of the things that pushed Ducimus over the edge into not modding any more was people's insistance on doing things he warned against and then insisting it was a TMO problem for Ducimus to fix.

When you add stuff to a supermod bad things happen. There are a very few things that are exempt from that statement and environmental mods are NEVER one of them.

Why not load up TMO by itself and learn to play it. Then you can play with individual mods added on top and you will immediately detect what they change and can decide for yourself if the exchange is beneficial. Making up a batch of soup and then asking which ingredient doesn't work just........doesn't work.

[Laffertytig]

very sound advice and that's exactly what im about to do.

ive removed the improved stock env stuff. the only reason why I gambled on it was because it was reported to be compatible with tmo.

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

For one thing ANY environmental mod is going to nerf the carefully balanced visual and sonar settings of TMO. And ANY of them will do so in a bad way, not a good way. One of the things that pushed Ducimus over the edge into not modding any more was people's insistance on doing things he warned against and then insisting it was a TMO problem for Ducimus to fix.

When you add stuff to a supermod bad things happen. There are a very few things that are exempt from that statement and environmental mods are NEVER one of them.

Why not load up TMO by itself and learn to play it. Then you can play with individual mods added on top and you will immediately detect what they change and can decide for yourself if the exchange is beneficial. Making up a batch of soup and then asking which ingredient doesn't work just........doesn't work.

That's aaaaallll true. You could try with GFO with RSRDC and ISE. Real Environment with the Lite fog mod works than ISE in the sensors aspect.

ISE was designed primarily for Stock or GFO. The people with TMO and RFB requested a version for these supermods but never works with total compatibility.

Another: in my TMO I use ISE but I tweaked it in the sensors side. Also try to use Easier AI for TMO and see what happens. But I fear you will need to tweak sensors. And it isn'
t easy. ISE is problematic with fog.

Good luck and regards.

Fitzcarraldo

[Laffertytig]

I'm still able to detect contacts while surfaced with sonar while moving at fast speeds. Does this also mean that destroyers can detect me on the surface with sonar?

Is this just the way TMO was designed?

[nionios]

Originally Posted by Laffertytig

I'm still able to detect contacts while surfaced with sonar while moving at fast speeds. Does this also mean that destroyers can detect me on the surface with sonar?

Is this just the way TMO was designed?

AFAIK,you can't be detected by warships sonar while on surface.Can someone else confirm this?

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by nionios

AFAIK,you can't be detected by warships sonar while on surface.Can someone else confirm this?

They can't see you on sonar but their eyes are mighty sharp so they don't have to.


As far as sonar use on the surface, in reality the sonar operator was required to keep his post while the boat was surfaced and until ordered to stand down by the captain. They could and expected to develop contacts while on the surface. Although the sonic sonar head was on deck there were two supersonic sonar heads under the forward torpedo room of the submarine and they would work fine up to about 10 knots. Near as I remember TMO is not supposed to have any sonar operation on the surface at all, at any speed. Let me test that out.

Now, how are you determining that you have sonar at high speed on the surface? You do know that on the surface the lines are radar lines and sonar lines can't be plotted at the same time as radar lines, right? Are you actually manning the sonar operator's position and listening to targets while running at high speed to confirm that is exactly what you see?

[fitzcarraldo]

I use a mod called TMO SonarTargetFix but really never try it at flank speed.

Respect radar I see the odd bug of a Gar sub without radar in early war with the radar operator repeating "radar contact radar contact"...

Regards

Fitzcarraldo

[aanker]

Originally Posted by Laffertytig

I'm still able to detect contacts while surfaced with sonar while moving at fast speeds. Does this also mean that destroyers can detect me on the surface with sonar?

Is this just the way TMO was designed?

No they can't detect you with sonar if you are surfaced, as previously mentioned.

There is a Stock sonar bug; some contacts can't be detected by you if they are moving at 5 kts or less. I'm pretty sure Ducimus tried to repair it in TMO.... if that is your problem.

There are other mods that correct this for Stock.

As RR mentioned your sonar heads are beneath the fw torpedo compartment and they do pick up contacts if your boat is surfaced, although they come in better if you are submerged.

If you read/browse through the fleet boat sonar manual at hnsa, you will see that there is a 3rd detector topside that rotates.
http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/sonar/index.htm

Ducimus tried to emulate the real world fleet boats' performance - with some 'liberties'.

Happy Hunting!

[Laffertytig]

im defo picking up sonar contacts while surfaced as it reports merchant detected, moving away etc.

its only really an issue before radar is equipped and it certainly isn't a major issue, just one of the many quirks of the silent hunter game engine.

[aanker]

Originally Posted by Laffertytig

im defo picking up sonar contacts while surfaced as it reports merchant detected, moving away etc.

As you should in US fleet boats. US fleet boats could pick up ships on their sonar when they were running on the surface. Of course if they submerged they could pick up contacts even better.

In SH4, the US boats pick up relatively distant sonar contacts when running on the surface.

The German U-Boats could not, they had to be submerged 60' - 80' or so to pick up sonar contacts.

I hope this is clear...

Happy Hunting!

[Laffertytig]

Not at flank speed they didn't. Anything over 10 knots and there would be to much bow wave distortion. Weather also doesn't seem to affect it as I was runnin surfaced at flank speed in a storm.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Laffertytig

Not at flank speed they didn't. Anything over 10 knots and there would be to much bow wave distortion. Weather also doesn't seem to affect it as I was runnin surfaced at flank speed in a storm.

In real life a storm all by itself with no boat movement would make for very messy sonar conditions which would markedly shorten detection range to well under visual range. Many times during the war subs had to dive to 100' or lower to get decent listening conditions during a storm.

[fitzcarraldo]

RSRDC modifies the sonar in TMO and it don´t detect anything in surface. There is a mod for restore the TMO sonar as Ducimus designed it.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo