Hamas launches war on Israel

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by mapuc

There's things I do not understand, while be in support of the Palestine and the civilians living there and accusing Israel for killing them, BUT is absent when it comes to accuse Russian for killing civilians in Ukraine.

Markus

Well done, you've just exposed the hypocrisy of a troll.

Two private messages already on the subject so It's quite possible my patience will come to an abrupt end soon.

[Exocet25fr]

Me too, there's things I do not understand, while you're in support of the Ukrainian and the
civilians and accusing Russians for killing them, BUT you're absent when it comes to accuse
Israelian for killing civilians in Gaza? are you hypocrits trolls too ? and now you threaten me for my opinions....!?

[Skybird]

https://www.dw.com/en/red-sea-will-e...els/a-68024566

[Skybird]

[Tagesspiegel] The political leader of Hamas, Khaled Mashal, says in a Qatari podcast that there is a political consensus in Palestine that the land "from the river to the sea" belongs to the Palestinians and that the existence of Israel will never be accepted. October 7 had shown that this vision was "realistic" and had already "begun".

They want nothing to do with the two-state solution. Abbas' autonomous authority would only express a different view for "political reasons". Hamas would only agree to the establishment of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders in order to continue fighting for the vision of a Palestine on the entire territory.
----------------
Golda Meir:"You cannot negotiate peace with somebody who has come to kill you."

[mapuc]

I know I have written it before either in this thread or in some other Palestine related thread.

It sadden me that the civilians in Palestine are the victims in the war between Hamas and Israel. However the blame for this is not Israel it is Hamas-Who is breaking every rules there is in the Geneva konvention

I support Israel they try to not hit the civilians but Hamas is using them as shields.

So should Israel be sitting there with their hands tied together ? And let Hamas send lots of rockets and mortar against them.

Markus

[Skybird]

Hamas' members are not some foreign mercenaries that came from oversea to Gaza, they are for the most young men that from childhood on have been trained to hate and dispise Jews and see them as dogs or pigs and they learned as little kids of kindergarden age already that it is an achievement to slay a Jew. Hamas recruits its people from the very middle of the Palestinian society.

That innocent the "civilians" are not, in my view.

Also, Islam has had hate on Jews and antisemitism in its founding genes from all its beginning on. This obsessive hate on Jews started already with Muhammad himself after the pharisees rejected him as an equal in theological debate, and Muhammad not concluded he learned too little, but felt offended by them showing him his deficit. Mind you, Islam knows no tolerance on equal terms for non believers, only their subjugation if they belong to the community of the book - or their execution in case of all others. That is no radical Islam. That is no Islamism. That simply is Islam based on the Quran. Thats why I am so unforgivably sceptical about and hostile to this ideology. Its not an ideology preaching tolerance and coexistence, but conquest and subjugation. And its "anything goes" regarding acchieving these goals. Want to stop it? Be stronger and tougher than them. And be aware that Muhammad warned his disciples to ever accept long lasting peace treaties, only limited seizefires - until Islam is strong enough (again, or in the first) to overthrow the other.

Sorry, but this and nothign else is what the Quran is saying. Let the other live, but only under your (Muslim) rule and dominance. And punish the other for not readily converting to islam by letting him know and make him feel he is inferior and is being discriminated. Westerners do not want to see this, since it would force them to realise what a beast they are dealing with, and that it demands self-defending reactions that Westerners are not readily willing to practice. It spoils our illusions of how convincing our ratio is to the others. Well. The West is in free fall. Totalitarian regimes as well as Islam are rising all around. Any questions?

[Jimbuna]

^ Israel for the win

[Jimbuna]

More than 25,000 now killed in Gaza since Israel offensive began, Hamas-run health ministry says

More than 25,000 people have now been killed in Gaza during Israel's offensive there, according to the Hamas-run health ministry.

It said there had been 178 deaths in the last 24 hours, making it one of the deadliest days in the war so far.

As fighting continued, Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu again rejected creating a Palestinian state.

The White House has said the US and Israel "clearly see things differently" when it comes to a two-state solution.

Israel began its offensive following the 7 October attack in which Hamas fighters killed 1,300 people in southern Israel and took more than 240 hostage.

In its first public account of the October assault, published on Sunday, Hamas described it as a "necessary step" against the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories and a way to secure the release of Palestinian prisoners.

Israel's air and ground operation is currently focusing on southern Gaza, where the military are convinced top Hamas commanders are holed up in, or beneath, the city of Khan Younis.

That is where the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said it had discovered another tunnel, some 830m (2,700ft) long and containing booby-traps and blast doors.

The IDF footage showed what appeared to be a tunnel with mattresses and cells inside - it is where Israel believes around 20 hostages, including children, were held at various points. None were found when the tunnel was discovered, though.

Israeli soldiers have also faced renewed attacks in the north of the Gaza Strip, where Hamas is said to have seized an opening around the town of Jabalia as Israel moved troops and tanks south.

More than three months since the conflict erupted, Israel - whose army far outstrips Hamas's capabilities - is still facing significant resistance across Gaza.

US intelligence agencies reportedly estimate that the Israeli military has killed 20-30% of Hamas fighters, which falls far short of Mr Netanyahu's stated aim of "completely destroying" the armed group.

The classified report is also said to have found that Hamas still has enough munitions to continue striking Israel and Israeli forces for months, raising the spectre of a prolonged war in which Israel could get bogged down.

The apparent slow progress, the fact no top Hamas commander has yet been captured or killed, and the collective trauma over the 130 or so Israeli hostages still missing, is prompting growing anti-government anger in Israel.

Protests are continuing by relatives of those still held by Hamas, calling for Mr Netanyahu to prioritise their release over the potentially impossible aim of destroying Hamas. And a still relatively small anti-war movement is also demonstrating, horrified by the damage wrought on Gaza - one of the most intense and destructive military campaigns in recent history.

Most Israelis have rallied around their flag - but not around their prime minister, who, according to a recent poll, only 15% of the public believe should stay in office once the war ends.

How it does end is the subject of growing disagreement between Mr Netanyahu and Israel's western allies. After speaking to US President Joe Biden for the first time in almost a month, the Israeli prime minister reiterated his rejection of a future Palestinian state.

In a post on X - formerly Twitter - he said Israel must retain "security control over the entire area west of [River] Jordan", which also encompasses the Israeli-occupied West Bank territory.

Mr Netanyahu has been fiercely opposed to a Palestinian state throughout his political career. But by repeatedly asserting it now, an increasingly unpopular prime minister appears to be doubling down on a view that he feels chimes with the majority opinion in a nation too horrified by the attacks to countenance an independent Palestinian state.

His apparent fight for political survival is clashing with exasperated Israeli allies, who hope that the current bloodshed could force both sides into meaningful diplomacy over a sustainable two-state solution.

UK Defence Secretary Grant Shapps told the BBC earlier that Mr Netanyahu's stance was "disappointing". The White House has said the US and Israel "clearly see things differently".

Antonio Guterres, secretary-general of the United Nations, went further, calling the refusal to accept a Palestinian state "completely unacceptable". He added it "would indefinitely prolong a conflict that has become a major threat to global peace and security".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68050172

[Jimbuna]

IDF says 24 soldiers killed in Gaza in one day

The Israeli army says 24 of its soldiers were killed in Gaza on Monday - the deadliest day for its forces since their ground operation began.

That includes 21 reservists who died in an explosion likely caused by mines that Israeli forces had placed in two buildings to demolish them, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said.

It is thought a missile fired by Palestinian armed fighters hit a tank guarding the troops just beforehand.

The IDF is investigating what happened.

According to Gaza's Hamas-run Health Ministry, 195 Palestinians have been killed in the past day.

The IDF's chief spokesman, Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari, said the reservists were killed in central Gaza at around 16:00 (14:00 GMT) on Monday - close to the kibbutz of Kissufim on the Israeli side of the border.

They were involved in an operation to allow for residents of southern Israel to safely return to their homes after tens of thousands were evacuated after the Hamas attack on 7 October.

The first funerals for those killed in the explosion have been held at Mount Herzl in a rainy Jerusalem.

Many of the mourners wore military uniforms and the scene was full of blue and white Israeli flags.

Israel's military had already confirmed that three officers were killed in a separate attack in southern Gaza on Monday.

The country's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that despite its suffering, his country would push on with its offensive until it had "absolute victory."

Elsewhere in Gaza, there has been fierce fighting by three hospitals in Khan Younis in the south, which is crowded with displaced people.

The IDF announced it has completely encircled the city, which has been a main focus of its ground offensive targeting Hamas.

Israel believes that the group's leaders may be hiding there and that it may also be where some Israeli hostages are being held.

According to the IDF, dozens of local gunmen were killed in its operation and its forces found rockets in rocket-launchers ready to fire, as well as tunnel shafts and a large number of weapons.

The Palestinians said that women and children have been killed in the latest fighting in the city.

They added that Israeli blockades and the storming of hospitals since Monday had left the wounded and dead beyond the reach of rescuers.

The dead were being buried inside the grounds of Nasser hospital because it has been unsafe to leave in order to reach the cemetery.

It is said that Israeli forces stormed another hospital, Al-Khair - which is in the al-Mawasi area to the west - and arrested staff.

Israel launched the war with the declared aim of destroying Hamas after waves of its gunmen killed 1,300 people - mostly civilians - and took about 250 others hostage in the unprecedented attack.

According to the IDF website, 217 soldiers have been killed since the beginning of Israel's ground invasion on 27 October out of a total of 552 killed since 7 October.

At least 25,490 people - mainly women and children - have been killed in the Israeli military campaign in Gaza since then, according to the Hamas-run health ministry.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68065903

[Jimbuna]

Khan Younis: Israel says forces have encircled Gaza's second city

The Israeli military says its ground forces have encircled Khan Younis, the southern Gaza Strip's largest city.

Troops have also reportedly advanced deeper into remaining parts of the city, where they believe Hamas leaders are hiding in tunnels with hostages.

Residents said tanks had shut the last road out of the city to the Mediterranean coast, effectively stopping them from fleeing southwards.

There was also intense fighting around the city's two main hospitals.

It came as funerals took place for some of the 24 Israeli soldiers killed on Monday on the deadliest day for the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) since the start of its ground offensive in Gaza 12 weeks ago.

At least 195 Palestinians were also killed in Gaza over the previous 24 hours, according to the territory's Hamas-run health ministry.

The ministry says more than 25,400 people have been killed - mostly children and women - during the war between Hamas and Israel.

It was triggered by an unprecedented cross-border attack by Hamas gunmen on southern Israel on 7 October, in which about 1,300 people were killed - most of them civilians - and about 250 others taken hostage.

Israeli ground forces expanded their operation into southern Gaza in early December, after largely taking control of Hamas strongholds in the north.

Within days they were said to have reached the "heart" of Khan Younis, where hundreds of thousands of people who had fled northern areas were sheltering.

But the troops have since faced fierce resistance from Hamas's Khan Younis Brigade. It is considered to be one of the two strongest in the group, which is designated as a terrorist organisation by Israel, the UK and other countries.

The Israeli operation has expanded and intensified in recent days, with dozens of people reported killed in air and artillery strikes on Monday alone as tanks pushed into the west and centre of the city.

On Tuesday, the IDF put out a statement saying that over the past day its troops had "carried out an extensive operation during which they encircled Khan Yunis and deepened the operation in the area".

The troops had "engaged in close-quarters combat, directed [air] strikes, and used intelligence to co-ordinate fire, resulting in the elimination of dozens of terrorists", it added.

The IDF also ordered residents of western Khan Younis to move immediately to the al-Mawasi area, on the Mediterranean coast, for their own safety.

However, some witnesses said tanks had blocked the road leading there, preventing them from joining the estimated million people currently sheltering to the south in Rafah, on the border with Egypt.

"I am trying to leave for Rafah but the tanks are now very near to the coast and are firing toward the west," Shaban, an electrical engineer with four children, told Reuters news agency.

The World Health Organization meanwhile said it was deeply concerned by reports of attacks on hospitals in Khan Younis.

On Tuesday, the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS) said a civilian had been killed by an Israeli drone at the entrance of Al-Amal Hospital, which it runs, and that others had been injured when shells struck its nearby headquarters.

"The situation remains extremely dangerous. Early this morning, there was direct artillery shelling of the Palestine Red Crescent's headquarters on the fourth floor. Israeli drones did not stop firing at people at al-Amal Hospital," spokeswoman Nebal Farsakh told the BBC from Ramallah.

"[There is] panic and fear among thousands of displaced people who are taking shelter inside our facilities."

There was no immediate comment from the IDF, but it has previously accused Hamas fighters of embedding themselves among the civilian population and operating in and around medical facilities.

Ms Farsakh also said ambulances were "facing significant challenges to reach wounded people and transport them to hospitals", adding that they were now being told to take critical cases to Deir al-Balah, in central Gaza.

And she warned that Al-Amal and the nearby Nasser Medical Complex - the largest of the 14 hospitals still partly working in Gaza - were "overwhelmed and overcrowded".

Dr Haytham Ahmad, who works in Nasser's emergency department, told the BBC that multiple amputations were being performed, and that in some cases, patients were not being given anaesthetic because of a shortage of supplies.

"These cases have severe crush injuries and there is just some skin and muscle still connected. We try to use limited anaesthetic in this situation," he said.

A World Health Organization spokesman said Nasser was "now basically besieged" and that there was "no way in and out" for its 400 patients, as well as the medical staff treating them and displaced civilians.

Gaza's health ministry alleged that Israeli forces had fired "heavily on the upper floors of the specialised surgery building and the emergency building" of the hospital.

One video filmed by a Palestinian journalist appeared to show gunfire hitting the hospital's western corner, while in another clip smoke is seen rising from an area to the south.

The IDF told AFP news agency that it was "not aware of the event".

Later, UN Secretary General António Guterres said the humanitarian situation in Gaza was "appalling" and that the entire population was "enduring destruction at a scale and speed without parallel in recent history".

He also once again appealed for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire.

Qatar's foreign ministry spokesman said it was "engaging in serious discussions with both sides" on a potential deal, and a Palestinian official told the BBC that a Hamas delegation had arrived in Cairo on Tuesday morning to "discuss new proposals" with Egypt's intelligence minister.

Israel has not denied that it has proposed a two-month truce, involving the release of hostages and Palestinian prisoners. But there are reports that has already been rejected by Hamas, which demands a permanent ceasefire.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68074566

[Jimbuna]

Israel's military said today it was intensifying operations around Khan Younis, Gaza's second-largest city. The assault has forced thousands of civilians to flee the area, although many remain trapped in the encircled city. Around 850 patients were still inside the city's main Nasser Hospital, according to the aid group Doctors Without Borders.

Overnight, the U.S. said it struck Houthi missiles, radar sites and weapons depots in Yemen that had been prepared to attack cargo ships and American assets in the Red Sea. The military said it also carried out strikes yesterday against Iranian-backed militia facilities in Iraq.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed yesterday that his forces would not stop fighting until “absolute victory” was achieved. His comments came a day after 24 soldiers were killed as a building was being wired for demolition with explosives. It marked the deadliest day for his country's forces since the war began.

More than 25,700 people have been killed in Gaza since the war began, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry. More than 63,300 have been injured, and thousands more are missing and presumed dead.

Israeli military officials said at least 221 soldiers have been killed during the ground invasion of Gaza. About 1,200 people were killed and about 240 hostages were taken after Hamas launched multipronged attacks on Israel on Oct. 7.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/live-bl...tes-rcna135409

[Jimbuna]

UN says 12 killed at Gaza shelter as fighting rages

At least 12 people were killed and 75 injured when a UN facility sheltering civilians was struck in Khan Younis in southern Gaza, the UN's Palestinian refugee agency says.

UNRWA said two shells hit its Khan Younis Training Centre during fighting in the city's western outskirts.

Its commissioner condemned the "blatant disregard of basic rules of war".

Israel's military said it had ruled out that the incident was the result of an air or artillery strike by its forces.

It added that it was reviewing Israeli operations nearby and examining the possibility that it was "Hamas fire".

Israeli troops have been battling Hamas fighters as they advance into western Khan Younis, a day after the military said it had completely encircled the city.

Clashes and bombardment around the city's two main hospitals have also left thousands of patients, staff and others unable to leave.

The conflict was triggered by an unprecedented cross-border attack by Hamas gunmen on southern Israel on 7 October, in which about 1,300 people were killed and about 250 others taken hostage.

More than 25,700 people have been killed in Gaza since then, according to the territory's Hamas-run health ministry.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68078580

[Jimbuna]

The UN's top court rules that Israel must take all measures to prevent genocidal acts in Gaza, but stops short of ordering an immediate halt to operations.

Judges at the International Court of Justice delivered an interim ruling in South Africa's genocide case against Israel.

Riyad al-Maliki, the Palestinian foreign minister, says the judges ruled "in favour of humanity and international law"

Meanwhile, PM Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel will "continue to defend ourselves and our citizens while adhering to international law"

A verdict on South Africa's allegation of genocide is not expected for years; Israel strongly denies the accusation, calling it "baseless"

Meanwhile, US media report that the head of the CIA is due to meet Israeli, Qatari and Egyptian officials in the coming days to discuss a new potential ceasefire in Gaza.

Israel's retaliatory attacks in Gaza have killed 25,900 people, mostly women and children, the Hamas-run health ministry says.

[Jimbuna]

[em2nought]

Reports are indicating tonight that 12 UN personnel participated on the side of HAMAS in the Oct 7th massacre, and I believe it.