Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE - Page 197

Leitender · 12-30-11, 10:36 AM

Also for type VIIC we can calculate average 26 rpm per Knot. I´m not sure if the engine configuration ist the same like in type IXC, from which the data earlier in this thread were. But at least, these data came from a supercharged engine.

Did anyone ever run his type VII-boat with 18.2 Knots? I think there must be a certain "dampness", e.g. crew efficiency or something like that.

Hitman

well explained. But as the boat reduces speed when turning or climbing, or when in heavy weather, i always thought, that telegraph´s setting represent load. But probably turning rounds are simply reduced to get this effect.

On the other side we have force and power values within .sim. Are they without any function? I thought i can change speed by altering force setting, but not sure anymore.

h.sie · 12-30-11, 10:40 AM

My assumption regarding .sim settings:

max_speed = maximum speed possible under certain conditions.

eng_power : determines acceleration: how fast can max. speed be reached.

rpm: for eye-candy.

h.sie · 12-30-11, 11:03 AM

I've found the pointer to the battery supply. Thus, I could program a rapid reduction of battery supply during 3xWahnsinnige (1.0).

But then I should also consider what happens when battery is empty!?!?.
Reduce speed a little bit? Too detailed IMHO.

LGN1 · 12-30-11, 11:30 AM

I don't think that 3xAK involves the electric engine

@Leitender: The data posted above for the VIIC is with super-charger.

Hitman · 12-30-11, 04:23 PM

Quote:

I've found the pointer to the battery supply. Thus, I could program a rapid reduction of battery supply during 3xWahnsinnige (1.0).

But then I should also consider what happens when battery is empty!?!?.
Reduce speed a little bit? Too detailed IMHO.

Yes, this all might easily get out of hand and become a programming hazard for you. That would of course be the most realistic solution, but if programming it becomes too much effort, I'd simply leave the adition of electric engines out and that's about it.

BTW there was another well known bug in SH3 regarding batteries, where once depleted you could actually continue running on them. I have no idea if this persists nowadays, and if it is still worth fixing or not.

h.sie · 12-30-11, 04:49 PM

@Hitman: I've tested it: Underwater speed sinks with sinking battery charge. If charge = 0 then speed = 0. Ok, the interior lights are still burning, but that I don't mind.

Missing Name · 12-30-11, 11:33 PM

Just a bit curious... why is ahead emergency labeled as 3xAK? I'm looking at "Type VII U-Boats" by Robert Stern and the "'unofficial' extra burst of power...could be achieved by hooking up the motors in drive mode. This was called 'Zweimal AK' (twice AK)." Wouldn't 2xAK or ZAK fit better, or did Stern mess something else up again?

Jaeger · 12-31-11, 05:52 AM

From only observing this thread i think it was like this:

AK = flank = 100% of power without risk for long maneuvers like overhauling a convoy

2x AK = Overcharge the diesels for emergency purposes, only usable for a short period of time

3xAK ("Wahnsinnige" in german, slang of the uboat-men) = Overcharge the diesel and adding the electric engines for emergency purposes, only usable for a short period of time, battery consuming.

The Overcharging will bring 5 to 10% more speed, compared to flank.

does this sound right?

h.sie · 12-31-11, 07:57 AM

yup, but due to the game restrictions (machine telegraph allows only max. 100% = 1.0) we can't drive at 105% or 110%. Thus, we have to do a simple scaling to:

- telegraph speed = 1.0 = 100% = 2 x AK (or 3 x AK) = OVERLOAD = RISK.

- telegraph speed = 0.95 = 95% = AK = FLANK = max. continuous speed. NO RISK.

This "loss" of 5-10% compared to real life values can be compensated by simply scaling the max_speed in the .sim file accordingly (if desired).

only important thing to know:

telegraph speed values between 0.98 and 1.0 will be considered as overload.

telegraph speed values below 0.98 are continuous speeds and will be 100% safe.

danasan · 12-31-11, 10:54 AM

Regarding Type 21 as an example, taken from the very very detailed German wiki. The development of the Type 21 was rather good recorded:

Überwasser (surfaced):

15,37 kn (28,5 km/h) (Diesel)17,94 kn (33,2 km/h) (E-Motor) 18,08 kn (33,5 km/h) (E-Motor + Diesel)

Getaucht (while diving):

16,5 kn (30,6 km/h) (E-Motor)6,1 kn (11,3 km/h) (Schleichfahrt-E-Motor)10,42 kn (19,3 km/h) (bei Schnorchelfahrt)

(max. erreichte
Geschwindigkeiten auf U 3503, U 3506 bzw. U 3507)

I would read that as the absolute max "3x Wahnsinnige" speed

Leitender · 12-31-11, 12:53 PM

LGN1

Your links from #1318 both contain this 470/480/490 rpm designation, where 470 is max continuous speed and its corresponding maximal power. The same in "M.Dv381" (common source: Tech. Manual for type VII). Maybe the data at the beginning of M.Dv 381 were experienced by trials.

Type VII had two MAN or GW (licence?) 6-cylinder engines M6V 40/46 with 1400/1500/1600 HP, wheras type IX boats had two MAN 9-cylindre engines M9V 40/46 with 2200/2300/2400 HP, at the rpm like the smaller type VII engines. Seems to me as if they were built in modules - 6 cylinders for the small boats, 9 cylinders for large ones.

Other characterstics were the same. Beyond, both type VII engines seemed to be charged by stock (and no, not by GWX

), either by so-called Buechi-Blower (former BBC, now ABB), or by MAN/GW (mechanical charger, compressor, also known as Roots-Blower).

I would recommend to set the max overload speed/rpm/force values into .sim and then reduce the telegraph setting for flank to 0.96 for each uboat.cfg. To maintain the distance, one could also reduce the value for full to e.g. 0.90 and for standard to, say, 0.75. This isn´t really hard to do.

h.sie

If i understand your last post right, every speed above 0.95 will risk damage? If so, many thanks for your continuous development of this mod. I really appreciate it.

And by the way

Guten Rutsch

Missing Name · 12-31-11, 12:54 PM

Ah, thanks for clearing that up!

h.sie · 12-31-11, 01:24 PM

@Leitender: No, when using my current parameters, the line between risk/no risk is about 0.97 / 0.98. Values below are absolutely safe ...... provided both diesels are undamaged. if at least one of them is damaged, things look completely different. then, only 1/3 or slow speed are safe.

Feierabend für heute. Guten Rutsch!

(partyevening for today. good gliding

)

Victor Schutze · 12-31-11, 01:38 PM

Guten rutsch und ein glückliches neues jahr, Kaleuns!

Hitman · 12-31-11, 01:54 PM

Hals-und Beinbruch für 2012 an alle!!!!

:Kaleun_Che ers:

12-30-11, 10:40 AM	#2942
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	My assumption regarding .sim settings: max_speed = maximum speed possible under certain conditions. eng_power : determines acceleration: how fast can max. speed be reached. rpm: for eye-candy. __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

12-30-11, 11:03 AM	#2943
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	I've found the pointer to the battery supply. Thus, I could program a rapid reduction of battery supply during 3xWahnsinnige (1.0). But then I should also consider what happens when battery is empty!?!?. Reduce speed a little bit? Too detailed IMHO. __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

12-30-11, 04:49 PM	#2946
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	@Hitman: I've tested it: Underwater speed sinks with sinking battery charge. If charge = 0 then speed = 0. Ok, the interior lights are still burning, but that I don't mind. __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

12-30-11, 11:33 PM	#2947
Missing Name Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Westun New Yahk Posts: 748 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	Just a bit curious... why is ahead emergency labeled as 3xAK? I'm looking at "Type VII U-Boats" by Robert Stern and the "'unofficial' extra burst of power...could be achieved by hooking up the motors in drive mode. This was called 'Zweimal AK' (twice AK)." Wouldn't 2xAK or ZAK fit better, or did Stern mess something else up again? __________________ Largest target sunk with deck gun: Japanese auxiliary cruiser, 15000 tons Largest engaged: HMS Nelson. Results inconclusive. Read Brag's stuff

12-31-11, 05:52 AM	#2948
Jaeger Chief Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 316 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	From only observing this thread i think it was like this: AK = flank = 100% of power without risk for long maneuvers like overhauling a convoy 2x AK = Overcharge the diesels for emergency purposes, only usable for a short period of time 3xAK ("Wahnsinnige" in german, slang of the uboat-men) = Overcharge the diesel and adding the electric engines for emergency purposes, only usable for a short period of time, battery consuming. The Overcharging will bring 5 to 10% more speed, compared to flank. does this sound right? __________________ Everything comes to him who waits

12-30-11, 10:36 AM	#2941
Leitender Planesman Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 191 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	Also for type VIIC we can calculate average 26 rpm per Knot. I´m not sure if the engine configuration ist the same like in type IXC, from which the data earlier in this thread were. But at least, these data came from a supercharged engine. Did anyone ever run his type VII-boat with 18.2 Knots? I think there must be a certain "dampness", e.g. crew efficiency or something like that. Hitman well explained. But as the boat reduces speed when turning or climbing, or when in heavy weather, i always thought, that telegraph´s setting represent load. But probably turning rounds are simply reduced to get this effect. On the other side we have force and power values within .sim. Are they without any function? I thought i can change speed by altering force setting, but not sure anymore.

12-30-11, 11:30 AM	#2944
LGN1 Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,138 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 12	I don't think that 3xAK involves the electric engine @Leitender: The data posted above for the VIIC is with super-charger.

12-31-11, 07:57 AM	#2949
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	yup, but due to the game restrictions (machine telegraph allows only max. 100% = 1.0) we can't drive at 105% or 110%. Thus, we have to do a simple scaling to: - telegraph speed = 1.0 = 100% = 2 x AK (or 3 x AK) = OVERLOAD = RISK. - telegraph speed = 0.95 = 95% = AK = FLANK = max. continuous speed. NO RISK. This "loss" of 5-10% compared to real life values can be compensated by simply scaling the max_speed in the .sim file accordingly (if desired). only important thing to know: telegraph speed values between 0.98 and 1.0 will be considered as overload. telegraph speed values below 0.98 are continuous speeds and will be 100% safe. __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie Last edited by h.sie; 12-31-11 at 08:12 AM.

12-31-11, 10:54 AM	#2950
danasan Elite Spam Hunter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Flensburg / Germany Posts: 1,141 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Regarding Type 21 as an example, taken from the very very detailed German wiki. The development of the Type 21 was rather good recorded: Überwasser (surfaced): 15,37 kn (28,5 km/h) (Diesel)17,94 kn (33,2 km/h) (E-Motor) 18,08 kn (33,5 km/h) (E-Motor + Diesel) Getaucht (while diving): 16,5 kn (30,6 km/h) (E-Motor)6,1 kn (11,3 km/h) (Schleichfahrt-E-Motor)10,42 kn (19,3 km/h) (bei Schnorchelfahrt) (max. erreichte Geschwindigkeiten auf U 3503, U 3506 bzw. U 3507) I would read that as the absolute max "3x Wahnsinnige" speed __________________ "I invite you to go inside this submergible hole in the water where you can nicely hide from destroyers." Last edited by danasan; 12-31-11 at 12:24 PM.

12-31-11, 12:53 PM	#2951
Leitender Planesman Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 191 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	LGN1 Your links from #1318 both contain this 470/480/490 rpm designation, where 470 is max continuous speed and its corresponding maximal power. The same in "M.Dv381" (common source: Tech. Manual for type VII). Maybe the data at the beginning of M.Dv 381 were experienced by trials. Type VII had two MAN or GW (licence?) 6-cylinder engines M6V 40/46 with 1400/1500/1600 HP, wheras type IX boats had two MAN 9-cylindre engines M9V 40/46 with 2200/2300/2400 HP, at the rpm like the smaller type VII engines. Seems to me as if they were built in modules - 6 cylinders for the small boats, 9 cylinders for large ones. Other characterstics were the same. Beyond, both type VII engines seemed to be charged by stock (and no, not by GWX ), either by so-called Buechi-Blower (former BBC, now ABB), or by MAN/GW (mechanical charger, compressor, also known as Roots-Blower). I would recommend to set the max overload speed/rpm/force values into .sim and then reduce the telegraph setting for flank to 0.96 for each uboat.cfg. To maintain the distance, one could also reduce the value for full to e.g. 0.90 and for standard to, say, 0.75. This isn´t really hard to do. h.sie If i understand your last post right, every speed above 0.95 will risk damage? If so, many thanks for your continuous development of this mod. I really appreciate it. And by the way Guten Rutsch

12-31-11, 12:54 PM	#2952
Missing Name Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Westun New Yahk Posts: 748 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	Ah, thanks for clearing that up! __________________ Largest target sunk with deck gun: Japanese auxiliary cruiser, 15000 tons Largest engaged: HMS Nelson. Results inconclusive. Read Brag's stuff

12-31-11, 01:24 PM	#2953
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	@Leitender: No, when using my current parameters, the line between risk/no risk is about 0.97 / 0.98. Values below are absolutely safe ...... provided both diesels are undamaged. if at least one of them is damaged, things look completely different. then, only 1/3 or slow speed are safe. Feierabend für heute. Guten Rutsch! (partyevening for today. good gliding ) __________________ My Mediafire page: http://www.mediafire.com/hsie

12-31-11, 01:38 PM	#2954
Victor Schutze Chief Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Drowning in mods soup Posts: 327 Downloads: 466 Uploads: 0	Guten rutsch und ein glückliches neues jahr, Kaleuns!

12-31-11, 01:54 PM	#2955
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,099 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	Hals-und Beinbruch für 2012 an alle!!!! :Kaleun_Che ers: __________________ One day I will return to sea ...