[WIP] Cold War Mod - Page 43

mobius22 · 07-05-09, 09:37 PM

Wow. I didnt think that any of this would actually be possible. Im really looking forward to this mod.

Werewolf · 07-10-09, 05:37 AM

@Bospor:

Yeah....I have actually managed to implement it into campaign play, I have also added a snorchel and stuff like that and I am working on turning a copy of it into a Golf class......all of this is something I have done privately because I do not wish to offend the ones who made the real model, but if it´s okay with them then I would be willing to share it. It is full of faults though since I am not a professional at modding....I´m still at the bungler stage

Regarding the very annoying and idioticly limited battery endurance I have made a lot of experimenting with this too since cold war boats were abel to stay submerged for days, some of them even weeks at low speeds. I have found out that:

a) altering the max submerged range in the sim file does not help unless you put in a rediculously high value like for example 100000 nm. Then you on the other hand get an unrealisticly high battery performance that will enable you to dive from New York and to Japan. Further more increasing the value will cause the batteries to get a tremendously high reloading time.

b) If the submarine is propelled by 2 shafts/propellors the submerged endurance is lousy BUT.....if propelled by only 1 propellor the sumberged endurance is app. doubled......you think I´m joking? No.....It´s true. Maybe this phenomenon is some sort of attempt from Ubisoft to simulate the better performance of single propellor ships, because that´s how it is in real life, the more propellors, the more speed yes, but lower fuel economy. If you on the other hand add a third propellor, like the 641 has got, the game will crash when you submerge.

At least all of this is how MY version of the game behave on MY computer

My solution has been to remove a propellor from the sub I play and then adding the hydrogen peroxide propulsion. in this way I get better submerged performance. The tricky part is that you have to remember to order full stop on all engines before switching between the propulsion systems otherwise the game will crash. Further more, it some times crashes any way when I recharge with the snorkel after many days of being submerged.

Well.......that was my erhm....contribution

......I´d really like to see this mod up and running too

Especially I am interested in the Soviet cruise missile program....I would love to see a Juliett class added

I have tried to make one myself, but I haven´t got the faintest clue on how to make the hull and the launcher system, right now I cannot even make the extra missile tubes that I want to add to the Golf Class working

Bospor · 07-11-09, 11:00 AM

I am so glad you had responded Werewolf! I have been trying this for a month now and it has been a struggle, to say the least. I am Russian myself, so I have been talking to Dagon on Russian forums trying to figure this out. He is talking to me in terms that I just don't get at all. I think he had enough of me, so I figured I'll seek help here. His 641 also has lots of Russian words in the file, but I have an American version of the game. So, there is a conflict somewhere in equipment terms and the game would not work. So I figured, perhaps someone who succesfully added 641 to a game AND made it playable for the German side might just upload his twiked game folders somewhere, so that the rest of us can download them and just put them into a game. This is the easiest way for noobs to use this sub. So, I am wondering if you don't mind helping us here. Lots of people on the Russian forums are asking for this kind of help and Dagon, who made this sub, will be more than happy if someone else does it, so noobs like me stop bugging him.

Werewolf · 09-17-09, 09:16 AM

Bump

Terror_666 · 10-23-09, 07:08 AM

is this mod still live or did it bleed out?

Trool323 · 10-23-09, 09:58 AM

I'd say it bleed out I mean it's near to "can't be done" to code anti ship misslies for sh4. I don't think it can be done. Not to mention torps that will fire in deep water, and also the sonor to find the enemysubs. The Sh4 game code and engine just wasn't made for it. I think a WWI mod is the best we can hope for. I'd love for someone to prove me wrong though buy making it happen and recoding the whole game. Good luck to who ever you may be.

Terror_666 · 10-23-09, 12:17 PM

that's too bad.
I thought they had found a workaround for the anti-ship missile problem. but yeah sonar would be difficult.

thyro · 11-02-09, 12:19 PM

Or migrate from SH4 to Arma2... plenty of missiles and good chance of having naval warfare. fingers crossed for SH5 hoping that hasn't SH4's limitations.

keltos01 · 11-02-09, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terror_666

that's too bad.
I thought they had found a workaround for the anti-ship missile problem. but yeah sonar would be difficult.

it is basically a torpedo with an altered height and different 3d model, and of course, faster. they still shoot horizontally.

keltos

ERPP8 · 02-18-10, 06:52 PM

Is it anywhere to being finished?
Is the interface different?
Will there be real action in it?

Herr Kaleun · 03-24-10, 01:01 PM

Has anybody the download link for this german klasse 206 sub?

In the russian thread is the link down.

Zel · 03-25-10, 03:46 PM

I'm working on a mod to implement basic cold war functionality to sh4. The game has many limitations, and realism is not possible, but I believe that challenging gameplay is possible. First, a big thank-you to DarkFish for the AI Launched Torpedoes mod. This was the starting point.

Completed features:
AI submarines and surface ships are able to launch torpedoes at the player while he is submerged. For a torpedo launch, a visual detection is necessary. The AI unit needs to be able to "see" underwater. The trick is, to get the visual sensor to behave like a hydrophone would. The influence of day/night and fog needs to be minimized. I got surprisingly good results! This modification affects surface warfare, but there are workarounds. One side effect is night vision for surface ships.

AI Launched mines: A torpedo is used to simulate a mine. A shallow mine is easy, but a deep mine is a problem - any time compression will mess it up. Because of this, a large proximity radius could be used. The mines have their own hyd_sound. A type of ping can be used, to simulate mine detecting sonar (heard at short range).

AI torpedo attack: The ai cannot determine player's depth, and each torpedo has it's own fixed depth. Again, a large proximity radius can be used to cover a lot of ground. Also, it's possible to have a deep, shallow and "middle" torpedo launcher. The modder can decide which one to mount (or all three, if desired). There was a lot of tuning done to the torpedo launchers to increase their accuracy. A salvo option is available, since the player can easily evade one torpedo.

Player submerged attack: The player can use his sonar ping freely, because the AI doesn't hear it (try it). There is a method to determine the exact depth of a target, using sonar. Thanks to homing torpedoes, a precise solution isn't necessary. The player will match his depth to the target's depth, and launch a fixed-depth torpedo. It stays at launch depth. There are also regular torpedoes, which go to their pre-set depth (in the sim file).

Air launched torpedoes/mines: this one is still somewhat buggy, but it's fun to watch planes decimate a convoy with torpedoes.

Extensible surface radar: replaces one of the periscopes.

Failed to complete:

Agressive behaviour of AI subs: the subs are pretty dumb. They have "merchant" behaviour: follow waypoints,zigzag and shoot. I've tried to make them act like a destroyer. almost had it..but the rudder stopped working. It was done by placing a Unit_Ship controller besides the Unit_Submarine controller in the sim file.

Anti ship / anti air missiles: I've got a launcher for them, but it's useless, since they don't collide with objects. The magnetic detonator doesn't trigger.

To do: further tuning of sensors and weapons. AI torpedo evasion if possible. Compatibility for 1.5 (using 1.4 now).

I hope this mod will be a step forward in making a cold war campaign for sh4. Check back for updates. Note: this mod will not contain cold-war units, only the sensors and wepons files.

Zel · 03-30-10, 01:19 PM

Here's an update for those interested in the cold war mod!

I've made a sonobuoy, which is pre-placed in the mission editor. It's a static object, which will report the player's position to nearby asw assets (about 30km). Also increases the probability of an airstrike, according to airstrike.cfg. They are radar detectable, couldn't make them work otherwise. It's possible to set up an array, to cover a larger area.

Pre-placed minefields, as well as ai launched mines now have a hydrophone sound. It's a sonar ping, to simulate a mine sensing sonar. The player's autocrew does not detect them as a contact. Will have to adjust the volume to make them audible only at short range.

I've modified the surface radar to detect air units. This eliminates the need for air radar. Plus you can see them on your display.

The mark27 torpedo is modified to act exactly like a decoy. They have a long life, and they can be used as a navigational aid if you're playing without the sub marker. This is because you can hear the bubbles, and they respond to ping.

How to determine a target's depth: Since sh4 does not allow ai subs to change depth, they are cloned so that each clone has a different operating depth. We can give each clone a slightly different _hyd sound, for rough depth estimation. For a more precise depth estimation, this is the process:

The following conditions must be met to get a ping response from an ai submarine:
1. You must pinpoint the exact bearing (more precise than with ships)
2. Your sub must be horizontally levelled.
3. The target must be within +/- 47m depth relative to you.

Determining a target's depth means finding the lower or upper limit of the ping response. When you find it, add or subtract 47, and that's the target's depth. The tricky part is, you can't ping while changing depth, you have to wait until your sub is horizontally levelled. The enemy cannot hear you ping...

Note: because of this bug, playable surface units can only ping submarines which are up to 47m deep. Any deeper, and you won't get a return. That's the main reason why i stopped working with playable dd's. The other reason is, flak guns are the only functional AA weapon.

Going to work now with decoys for the AI.

ElephantMemory · 03-30-10, 04:25 PM

sounds awesome

I am a little late to this tread, and I was wondering if you have a list of the playable submarines that will be in this mod? Im sure you posted this already. I just really did not want to have to search though 40 something pages heh

thanks and good luck!

Zel · 03-30-10, 04:39 PM

Thanks for the feedback! I haven't made any cold war submarines (i'm a newbie at 3d modeling), so the first version of this mod will include only ww2 equipment. Gato/Porpoise for the player and AI Uboats.

I'm doing testing with Fletcher and Mutsuki (both ai), so these will be included too.

Any playable sub will easily be implemented into this mod. It only needs some adjustments for RPM value, TorpMaxLaunchDepth, and torpedo loadout.

AI submarines won't be a problem, either. They just require editing .sns and .eqp files, to implement new sensors and weapon mounts. Then they would have to be cloned, to have them operating at different depths.

I think early cold war equipment would be appropriate.

Right now i'm focusing on functionality, and later, compatibility. I'm using 1.4 now (will upgrade to 1.5 someday)..so i would like to make this compatible for both 1.4 and 1.5.

After the mod is completed, and new subs and ships (and maybe planes) are included, it will be possible to make a campaign.

View Poll Results: What time period would you like the Cold War Mod to encompass?
Early Cold War: 1947 to the early 1960s	148	14.20%
Mid Cold War: 1960s to 1980s	195	18.71%
Late Cold War: 1980's to 1991	147	14.11%
I want the whole thing! 1947 to 1991	552	52.98%
Voters: 1042. You may not vote on this poll

10-23-09, 07:08 AM	#635
Terror_666 Watch Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Monitoring my back-yard SAM site. Posts: 30 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	is this mod still live or did it bleed out? __________________ Evil, Malice, Death, Decay. Just another working day.

10-23-09, 12:17 PM	#637
Terror_666 Watch Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Monitoring my back-yard SAM site. Posts: 30 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	that's too bad. I thought they had found a workaround for the anti-ship missile problem. but yeah sonar would be difficult. __________________ Evil, Malice, Death, Decay. Just another working day.

11-02-09, 12:19 PM	#638
thyro Commander Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: on a rock surrounded by water, that people call it UK Posts: 473 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	Or migrate from SH4 to Arma2... plenty of missiles and good chance of having naval warfare. fingers crossed for SH5 hoping that hasn't SH4's limitations. __________________ "The good news is that you’re never, ever more than 6 miles from land. The bad news is, the land is straight down!"

03-24-10, 01:01 PM	#641
Herr Kaleun Watch Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 24 Downloads: 400 Uploads: 0	Has anybody the download link for this german klasse 206 sub? In the russian thread is the link down. __________________

07-05-09, 09:37 PM	#631
mobius22 Seaman Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 32 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Wow. I didnt think that any of this would actually be possible. Im really looking forward to this mod.

07-10-09, 05:37 AM	#632
Werewolf Sonar Guy Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 394 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	@Bospor: Yeah....I have actually managed to implement it into campaign play, I have also added a snorchel and stuff like that and I am working on turning a copy of it into a Golf class......all of this is something I have done privately because I do not wish to offend the ones who made the real model, but if it´s okay with them then I would be willing to share it. It is full of faults though since I am not a professional at modding....I´m still at the bungler stage Regarding the very annoying and idioticly limited battery endurance I have made a lot of experimenting with this too since cold war boats were abel to stay submerged for days, some of them even weeks at low speeds. I have found out that: a) altering the max submerged range in the sim file does not help unless you put in a rediculously high value like for example 100000 nm. Then you on the other hand get an unrealisticly high battery performance that will enable you to dive from New York and to Japan. Further more increasing the value will cause the batteries to get a tremendously high reloading time. b) If the submarine is propelled by 2 shafts/propellors the submerged endurance is lousy BUT.....if propelled by only 1 propellor the sumberged endurance is app. doubled......you think I´m joking? No.....It´s true. Maybe this phenomenon is some sort of attempt from Ubisoft to simulate the better performance of single propellor ships, because that´s how it is in real life, the more propellors, the more speed yes, but lower fuel economy. If you on the other hand add a third propellor, like the 641 has got, the game will crash when you submerge. At least all of this is how MY version of the game behave on MY computer My solution has been to remove a propellor from the sub I play and then adding the hydrogen peroxide propulsion. in this way I get better submerged performance. The tricky part is that you have to remember to order full stop on all engines before switching between the propulsion systems otherwise the game will crash. Further more, it some times crashes any way when I recharge with the snorkel after many days of being submerged. Well.......that was my erhm....contribution ......I´d really like to see this mod up and running too Especially I am interested in the Soviet cruise missile program....I would love to see a Juliett class added I have tried to make one myself, but I haven´t got the faintest clue on how to make the hull and the launcher system, right now I cannot even make the extra missile tubes that I want to add to the Golf Class working

07-11-09, 11:00 AM	#633
Bospor Watch Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I am so glad you had responded Werewolf! I have been trying this for a month now and it has been a struggle, to say the least. I am Russian myself, so I have been talking to Dagon on Russian forums trying to figure this out. He is talking to me in terms that I just don't get at all. I think he had enough of me, so I figured I'll seek help here. His 641 also has lots of Russian words in the file, but I have an American version of the game. So, there is a conflict somewhere in equipment terms and the game would not work. So I figured, perhaps someone who succesfully added 641 to a game AND made it playable for the German side might just upload his twiked game folders somewhere, so that the rest of us can download them and just put them into a game. This is the easiest way for noobs to use this sub. So, I am wondering if you don't mind helping us here. Lots of people on the Russian forums are asking for this kind of help and Dagon, who made this sub, will be more than happy if someone else does it, so noobs like me stop bugging him.

09-17-09, 09:16 AM	#634
Werewolf Sonar Guy Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 394 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Bump

10-23-09, 09:58 AM	#636
Trool323 Sparky Join Date: May 2007 Location: southwest ohio Posts: 154 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	I'd say it bleed out I mean it's near to "can't be done" to code anti ship misslies for sh4. I don't think it can be done. Not to mention torps that will fire in deep water, and also the sonor to find the enemysubs. The Sh4 game code and engine just wasn't made for it. I think a WWI mod is the best we can hope for. I'd love for someone to prove me wrong though buy making it happen and recoding the whole game. Good luck to who ever you may be.

02-18-10, 06:52 PM	#640
ERPP8 Commodore Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: My House Posts: 608 Downloads: 161 Uploads: 0	Is it anywhere to being finished? Is the interface different? Will there be real action in it?

03-25-10, 03:46 PM	#642
Zel Sailor man Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 45 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Cold War workshop I'm working on a mod to implement basic cold war functionality to sh4. The game has many limitations, and realism is not possible, but I believe that challenging gameplay is possible. First, a big thank-you to DarkFish for the AI Launched Torpedoes mod. This was the starting point. Completed features: AI submarines and surface ships are able to launch torpedoes at the player while he is submerged. For a torpedo launch, a visual detection is necessary. The AI unit needs to be able to "see" underwater. The trick is, to get the visual sensor to behave like a hydrophone would. The influence of day/night and fog needs to be minimized. I got surprisingly good results! This modification affects surface warfare, but there are workarounds. One side effect is night vision for surface ships. AI Launched mines: A torpedo is used to simulate a mine. A shallow mine is easy, but a deep mine is a problem - any time compression will mess it up. Because of this, a large proximity radius could be used. The mines have their own hyd_sound. A type of ping can be used, to simulate mine detecting sonar (heard at short range). AI torpedo attack: The ai cannot determine player's depth, and each torpedo has it's own fixed depth. Again, a large proximity radius can be used to cover a lot of ground. Also, it's possible to have a deep, shallow and "middle" torpedo launcher. The modder can decide which one to mount (or all three, if desired). There was a lot of tuning done to the torpedo launchers to increase their accuracy. A salvo option is available, since the player can easily evade one torpedo. Player submerged attack: The player can use his sonar ping freely, because the AI doesn't hear it (try it). There is a method to determine the exact depth of a target, using sonar. Thanks to homing torpedoes, a precise solution isn't necessary. The player will match his depth to the target's depth, and launch a fixed-depth torpedo. It stays at launch depth. There are also regular torpedoes, which go to their pre-set depth (in the sim file). Air launched torpedoes/mines: this one is still somewhat buggy, but it's fun to watch planes decimate a convoy with torpedoes. Extensible surface radar: replaces one of the periscopes. Failed to complete: Agressive behaviour of AI subs: the subs are pretty dumb. They have "merchant" behaviour: follow waypoints,zigzag and shoot. I've tried to make them act like a destroyer. almost had it..but the rudder stopped working. It was done by placing a Unit_Ship controller besides the Unit_Submarine controller in the sim file. Anti ship / anti air missiles: I've got a launcher for them, but it's useless, since they don't collide with objects. The magnetic detonator doesn't trigger. To do: further tuning of sensors and weapons. AI torpedo evasion if possible. Compatibility for 1.5 (using 1.4 now). I hope this mod will be a step forward in making a cold war campaign for sh4. Check back for updates. Note: this mod will not contain cold-war units, only the sensors and wepons files.

03-30-10, 01:19 PM	#643
Zel Sailor man Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 45 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Here's an update for those interested in the cold war mod! I've made a sonobuoy, which is pre-placed in the mission editor. It's a static object, which will report the player's position to nearby asw assets (about 30km). Also increases the probability of an airstrike, according to airstrike.cfg. They are radar detectable, couldn't make them work otherwise. It's possible to set up an array, to cover a larger area. Pre-placed minefields, as well as ai launched mines now have a hydrophone sound. It's a sonar ping, to simulate a mine sensing sonar. The player's autocrew does not detect them as a contact. Will have to adjust the volume to make them audible only at short range. I've modified the surface radar to detect air units. This eliminates the need for air radar. Plus you can see them on your display. The mark27 torpedo is modified to act exactly like a decoy. They have a long life, and they can be used as a navigational aid if you're playing without the sub marker. This is because you can hear the bubbles, and they respond to ping. How to determine a target's depth: Since sh4 does not allow ai subs to change depth, they are cloned so that each clone has a different operating depth. We can give each clone a slightly different _hyd sound, for rough depth estimation. For a more precise depth estimation, this is the process: The following conditions must be met to get a ping response from an ai submarine: 1. You must pinpoint the exact bearing (more precise than with ships) 2. Your sub must be horizontally levelled. 3. The target must be within +/- 47m depth relative to you. Determining a target's depth means finding the lower or upper limit of the ping response. When you find it, add or subtract 47, and that's the target's depth. The tricky part is, you can't ping while changing depth, you have to wait until your sub is horizontally levelled. The enemy cannot hear you ping... Note: because of this bug, playable surface units can only ping submarines which are up to 47m deep. Any deeper, and you won't get a return. That's the main reason why i stopped working with playable dd's. The other reason is, flak guns are the only functional AA weapon. Going to work now with decoys for the AI.

03-30-10, 04:25 PM	#644
ElephantMemory Seaman Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 35 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	sounds awesome I am a little late to this tread, and I was wondering if you have a list of the playable submarines that will be in this mod? Im sure you posted this already. I just really did not want to have to search though 40 something pages heh thanks and good luck!

03-30-10, 04:39 PM	#645
Zel Sailor man Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 45 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the feedback! I haven't made any cold war submarines (i'm a newbie at 3d modeling), so the first version of this mod will include only ww2 equipment. Gato/Porpoise for the player and AI Uboats. I'm doing testing with Fletcher and Mutsuki (both ai), so these will be included too. Any playable sub will easily be implemented into this mod. It only needs some adjustments for RPM value, TorpMaxLaunchDepth, and torpedo loadout. AI submarines won't be a problem, either. They just require editing .sns and .eqp files, to implement new sensors and weapon mounts. Then they would have to be cloned, to have them operating at different depths. I think early cold war equipment would be appropriate. Right now i'm focusing on functionality, and later, compatibility. I'm using 1.4 now (will upgrade to 1.5 someday)..so i would like to make this compatible for both 1.4 and 1.5. After the mod is completed, and new subs and ships (and maybe planes) are included, it will be possible to make a campaign.