Convoys - how to take down more than 1 ship at a time

[Raven Morpheus]

Hey all

This applied to all the Silent Hunter games I guess, but I only play 4 & 5 and I'm currently playing 4 again.

I'm having a problem with convoys, I've always had problems with convoys, but it's now starting to bug me as I try to improve my ability to take down ships. I use the Dick O'Kane targeting method as described by Rockin Robbins in his videos on youtube.

I get a convoy of 5 ships all lined up about 1000-2000 yards away, measure the speed of the first ship (it's doing a leisurely 8 knots), I assume that all ships in the convoy are doing the same speed as they're all in nice neat lines, so I proceed with setting up the TDC (with range at 1000 yards and fish depth shallow to avoid going straight under a ship and detonators set to contact) and then sit and wait for the ships to start crossing my periscope.

I hit the button to fire, launching two fish at a ship as it crosses my crosshairs, rinse and repeat 3 times. However only 1 fish actually hits the target - the 2nd aimed at the same ship is a dud (no surprise there!), but the other 4 aimed at other ships just go sailing on into the distance!

So, how do I avoid that happening? Are the ships seeing my fish and dropping anchors to shed speed all of a sudden or do they have jet turbines and sticking on the afterburners to speed up all of a sudden?


I'm running these mods, just in case this it's something related to them -

3000 Yard Bearing Tool (1920x)
Game Fixes Only Mod v1.1
RE #1 Real Environment mod install
GFO Patch for Real Env
Webster's Missing Voices
Webster's Ship Draft Fix
Webster's Ship Manuvering Fix
Webster's Sub Draft Fix
EAXsoundsim_with_WebstersManeuverSTOCK_GFO_OM
Webster's Torpedo Test Missions for v1.5
RE #4 Warships retextured
RE #5 optional loading_screen
Optical Targeting Correction
Aspect Ratio 16 to 9

TIA

[captcrane]

Ahoy Mate! I used Rockin Robbins video after getting really frustrated at missing targets. It was fantastic! I take it you are of course approaching on a 90 degree angle. When you set up your firing solution make sure the first thing you do is push the L key to lock your sight in on zero. As far as distance goes I drag the gauge down as described in the video. for multiple ships moving across the first 2 torpedoes I set at slow speed the 2nd two for the other ship at fast speed. The circle you draw with a compass shows the radius of the circle. So if it says 1000 yards it's a 2000 yard circle just saying. I was not that good in geometry. also check your attack map to make sure the torpedo path looks correct. If you see an obvious mistake your torpedoes should be pointed in the direction the ships are going not behind them meaning your angle of the bow setting is off by 180 degrees And also make sure your torpedo tubes are OPEN

this is my mod list
Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Ubisoft\MODS]
Webster's GFO Mod v1.1
Webster's New Orders Bar Menu for v1.5
Webster's Better Air Patrols for v1.4 and v1.5
#1 ISE New clouds+Waves
#2 ISE Realistic Colors
Less Plankton 1.2
Magnified Hud Dials for v1.5_Medium
SofuGan
Bigger Better Protractors

[Rockin Robbins]

You have to realize that during the war they didn't shoot at multiple targets at one time very often and when they did they had lousy results.

Let's say you're some kind of wizard and have four ships out there with two torpedoes headed to each. Now one of the torpedoes broaches. Or has a premature explosion. How do you think ships will react? In real life they started zipping around like crazed ants. The usual result was a quarter of the boat's torpedoes gone and no hits.

So, as a result, especially after Dick O'Kane was very vocal about stalking one ship at a time and wasting fewer torpedoes for more tonnage, shooting more than one ship simultaneously was looked at as hopeless showboating, usually returning no hits.

[Raven Morpheus]

Oh OK.

The problem I find in this game with stalking a convoy and taking out 1 ship per "attack run" is that after the first ship goes down the convoy gets all jumpy, they start zigging and zagging and end up all over the place. You may as well just go and find another convoy, especially if the DD start pouncing on you.

Seems a bit pointless to take out just 1 ship per convoy and leave, but stalking them isn't viable either!!

So far in the 2 missions I've done I've used 48 fish to take down 6 ships for a total tonnage of 38913 tonnes. That's 3 Nipon Maru tankers, 2 Akita Maru Freighters and a Fubuki Destroyer that got in the way.

Is that good or bad in terms of performance within the boundaries of the game, I'm guessing bad?

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Raven Morpheus

Oh OK.

The problem I find in this game with stalking a convoy and taking out 1 ship per "attack run" is that after the first ship goes down the convoy gets all jumpy, they start zigging and zagging and end up all over the place. You may as well just go and find another convoy, especially if the DD start pouncing on you.

Seems a bit pointless to take out just 1 ship per convoy and leave, but stalking them isn't viable either!!

So far in the 2 missions I've done I've used 48 fish to take down 6 ships for a total tonnage of 38913 tonnes. That's 3 Nipon Maru tankers, 2 Akita Maru Freighters and a Fubuki Destroyer that got in the way.

Is that good or bad in terms of performance within the boundaries of the game, I'm guessing bad?

Usually within a half hour they'll calm down and resume order. With an escorted convoy my strategy is to hit one from the side at about 3000 yards. This will pull all the escorts toward that spot but you bug out to do an end around to the other side of the convoy. Then you have a clear shot at essentially unguarded targets and can get in close to put somebody on the bottom. That will pull the esorts, but you're doing an end around to the new unguarded side of the convoy. Repeat as necessary.

I'm not going to judge anybody's performance based on tonnage. A few years back the Ubi forum had this 100,000 ton club. I posted a You Tube video of sinking 100,000 tons in ten minutes. It's all how you play and how your game is set up.

Compared to most of the real subs, your performance is unrealistically good. On the other hand, Joe Enright sank 72,000 tons (Shinano) in a couple of hours.

[Outeniqua]

If you've come from U-boats, you need approach the problem from different angle. The U-boats periscope was slaved to the TDC, so you have constant bearing recalculation of your set solution as you turn the scope. Which means merely turning the scope will update the solution, except for range. This makes engaging multiple ship easier, provided you keep the gyro angle low.

This can't be done using the USN's, superior TDC, with the position keeper. The relative solution update is in my opinion far a far better system, since you are not forced to keep in putting data, once you have a solution. You will have to manually change the AOB for each bearing change and not use the PK, to hit multiple ships. There is a way around it shown in one of Rockin' Robbins' brilliant tutorial video's for setting up a fast 90.

If done correctly, and you are positioned perpendicular to the course of the convoy, you should be able to ripple off your fish, starting at the furthest ship in the convoy and working your way closer. The torpedoes should impact each target, provided no pre matures, about the same time - within a few seconds of each other.

Of course this is show boating. It was not very feasible to do this IRL. We don't have to deal with the variables they had to and it's best to hit a target, evade, then re-engage.

[Gray Lensman]

If you really want to try for multiple ship kills you should check out ColonelSandersLite's tutorial here on multiple ship targeting using combinations of slow/fast torpedoes etc. for near simultaneous hit timing techniques which help mitigate the effects of all the target ships bugging out because one of the ships got hit soon enough for the others to have time to react.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Gray Lensman

If you really want to try for multiple ship kills you should check out ColonelSandersLite's tutorial here on multiple ship targeting using combinations of slow/fast torpedoes etc. for near simultaneous hit timing techniques which help mitigate the effects of all the target ships bugging out because one of the ships got hit soon enough for the others to have time to react.

As far as theory goes, that's brilliant. BUT no boats in the real war ever did that--not once!

When you play a game you tend to do all sorts of things a real submariner would never dream of doing. First of all, they NEVER used slow torpedoes. Three things determine hits: good data, getting closer to the target with gyro angles under 30 degrees, faster torpedoes. NO SUBMARINER would toss two of those in the garbage and just start playing John Wayne with precious torpedoes they schlepped from 3,000 miles away and two weeks' travel away.

What if torpedo #1 (or #6 for that matter, with ColonelSandersLite's method they're all swimming at once) has a premature or broaches? You just wasted a quarter or a third of the boat's entire compliment of torpedoes for no hits at all! When you got back to Pearl, you wouldn't be skippering a submarine any more, you'd be in Leavenworth, if you're lucky enough to avoid pounding a beach somewhere on an island you've never heard of.

One target at a time. Merchants, not escorts except when your fool life depends on it. No 2,000 yard shots. 500 is more like it unless you have a very big, well escorted target in a convoy and you have strategic reasons for taking a non-ideal shot. If you're shooting with radar, two torpedoes per merchie.

If you spent two weeks to get from Pearl to the Sea of Japan and it would be a month to go back, rearm and return, You wouldn't do these stupid things. But you have time compression. You can get back to Pearl in five minutes. The game has removed the reality from your decision making.

Don't turn SH4 into an arcade game!

[mikesn9]

One target at a time. Merchants, not escorts except when your fool life depends on it. No 2,000 yard shots. 500 is more like it unless you have a very big, well escorted target in a convoy and you have strategic reasons for taking a non-ideal shot. If you're shooting with radar, two torpedoes per merchie.

So true..

At times I have gotten a little froggy, figured I could take out half the convoy with my first salvo. Once in a (very) great while it works, but usually end up wasting 4 out of 6 torpedoes.

If you're lucky, you can nag 1 or 2 more Merchants while the DD's are blowing up the water a thousand yards away. A lot depends on convoy speed, how smart the DD's are, and what they do, of course.

I have wasted a few entire convoys this way. Takes a while, and time compression can work against you here.

[Gray Lensman]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

As far as theory goes, that's brilliant. BUT no boats in the real war ever did that--not once!

When you play a game you tend to do all sorts of things a real submariner would never dream of doing. First of all, they NEVER used slow torpedoes. Three things determine hits: good data, getting closer to the target with gyro angles under 30 degrees, faster torpedoes. NO SUBMARINER would toss two of those in the garbage and just start playing John Wayne with precious torpedoes they schlepped from 3,000 miles away and two weeks' travel away.

What if torpedo #1 (or #6 for that matter, with ColonelSandersLite's method they're all swimming at once) has a premature or broaches? You just wasted a quarter or a third of the boat's entire compliment of torpedoes for no hits at all! When you got back to Pearl, you wouldn't be skippering a submarine any more, you'd be in Leavenworth, if you're lucky enough to avoid pounding a beach somewhere on an island you've never heard of.

One target at a time. Merchants, not escorts except when your fool life depends on it. No 2,000 yard shots. 500 is more like it unless you have a very big, well escorted target in a convoy and you have strategic reasons for taking a non-ideal shot. If you're shooting with radar, two torpedoes per merchie.

If you spent two weeks to get from Pearl to the Sea of Japan and it would be a month to go back, rearm and return, You wouldn't do these stupid things. But you have time compression. You can get back to Pearl in five minutes. The game has removed the reality from your decision making.

Don't turn SH4 into an arcade game!

I play it your way, almost always one ship at a time setup, but the OP asked a question that deserved a straight answer. After a while, he'll probably come around to more realism.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Gray Lensman

I play it your way, almost always one ship at a time setup, but the OP asked a question that deserved a straight answer. After a while, he'll probably come around to more realism.

ColonelSandersLite's method is worth trying, just to appreciate the genius of the method when it works. But Dick O'Kane spends some time in his book Clear the Bridge to preach against such tactics. So does Fluckey in Thunder Below.