[TEC] Sonar ranges AI_sensors.dat - Page 2

Sniper297 · 04-08-19, 06:44 PM

Well, I was also in the USN, Aviation ASW tech in a heavy helicopter antisubmarine squadron, so the only real world sonar I have any experience with was the AN/AQS-13 Alpha in the SH3 Sea King.

The thing hanging down is the dip sonar being retracted, the barrel shaped part is the hydrophone, the long skinny thing below that is the transducer. Unlike surface ship sonar it was 360 degrees always, either active or passive, the circuits in the hydrophone automatically gave the range and bearing with no need to focus a transmitter or receiver. No moving parts.

From what I've read (again no real world experience, I was born 8 years after WWII ended) the destroyers in WWII could only "ping" beam to beam, so that's what that semi circle is.

Never served on a destroyer (thank god, our Sikorsky Sea Kings were too big for them bobbing seasick corks) but I served on a couple carriers, and they had lookout stations for 360 degrees as well - guys on platforms or sponsons all around the 08 level of the island or the 03 level catwalks. Can't imagine why any modern destroyer wouldn't have the same, wasn't there at least a fantail watch looking for drunks falling overboard? (HIC!)

LinkName=Escort_Visual is a new one to me, but the value shown in your pic is 50,000 yards. That's one way to disable the visual ring in the chart, the average of 50,000 would be somewhere around 29000 yards, so that ring would be way too big to show up on the chart. Whoever programmed the mod must have edited another file to reduce the range that the AI crew can actually see, otherwise they'd have no need for radar.

Only mystery to me in your latest pic is the 1/3rd pie shape in front, have to ask the programmers of the mod what that is (got to be a second type of sonar) and how they pulled off the trick. Does the SNS file have more than one type of active sonar, or does the 128P have an extra sensor in it?

KaleunMarco · 04-08-19, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

Well, I was also in the USN, Aviation ASW tech in a heavy helicopter antisubmarine squadron, so the only real world sonar I have any experience with was the AN/AQS-13 Alpha in the SH3 Sea King.

The thing hanging down is the dip sonar being retracted, the barrel shaped part is the hydrophone, the long skinny thing below that is the transducer. Unlike surface ship sonar it was 360 degrees always, either active or passive, the circuits in the hydrophone automatically gave the range and bearing with no need to focus a transmitter or receiver. No moving parts.

From what I've read (again no real world experience, I was born 8 years after WWII ended) the destroyers in WWII could only "ping" beam to beam, so that's what that semi circle is.

Never served on a destroyer (thank god, our Sikorsky Sea Kings were too big for them bobbing seasick corks) but I served on a couple carriers, and they had lookout stations for 360 degrees as well - guys on platforms or sponsons all around the 08 level of the island or the 03 level catwalks. Can't imagine why any modern destroyer wouldn't have the same, wasn't there at least a fantail watch looking for drunks falling overboard? (HIC!)

LinkName=Escort_Visual is a new one to me, but the value shown in your pic is 50,000 yards. That's one way to disable the visual ring in the chart, the average of 50,000 would be somewhere around 29000 yards, so that ring would be way too big to show up on the chart. Whoever programmed the mod must have edited another file to reduce the range that the AI crew can actually see, otherwise they'd have no need for radar.

Only mystery to me in your latest pic is the 1/3rd pie shape in front, have to ask the programmers of the mod what that is (got to be a second type of sonar) and how they pulled off the trick. Does the SNS file have more than one type of active sonar, or does the 128P have an extra sensor in it?

good questions....and no, i displayed all of the sensors from the .SNS file in my post.
maybe there is a second/supplementary sensor file. i don't know...
what i do know is that the A&B had four sensors rings displayed and there were four sensors defined. .-.-.-.-. (i'm connecting the dots)

Sniper297 · 04-08-19, 10:11 PM

Right. What I'm saying is radar, passive sonar, then two types of active sonar. The visual range ring can't be seen because it's too big for the chart. 50,000 yards would be about 29,000 yards for the ring, a radius of 14.5 nautical miles, a circle 29 miles in diameter. If you zoom in and out while a ship with range rings is selected, you'll find that when you zoom in as far as it goes then zoom out 5 times the ruler at top left shows 12.7 miles. Zoom out one more time and the ruler changes to 25.4 miles, and the range rings disappear. If they stayed visible at the 6th power zoom out, then you'd be able to see a 50,000 yard (29,000 yard average) range ring.

KaleunMarco · 04-08-19, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

Right. What I'm saying is radar, passive sonar, then two types of active sonar. The visual range ring can't be seen because it's too big for the chart. 50,000 yards would be about 29,000 yards for the ring, a radius of 14.5 nautical miles, a circle 29 miles in diameter. If you zoom in and out while a ship with range rings is selected, you'll find that when you zoom in as far as it goes then zoom out 5 times the ruler at top left shows 12.7 miles. Zoom out one more time and the ruler changes to 25.4 miles, and the range rings disappear. If they stayed visible at the 6th power zoom out, then you'd be able to see a 50,000 yard (29,000 yard average) range ring.

well, i will have to make time tomorrow and run another mission.
there is no shortage of A&B DD's and i'll use the ruler to make a more precise measurement of the outer circle.
more to come....

Sniper297 · 04-09-19, 11:47 PM

I looked at your pic in post #8, too small to read the ruler even after copying and pasting into PSP7 and sharpening it I can't make out the numbers.

In 1.4 if I zoom all the way in, then out five times, end of the ruler says 12.7 miles. Zoom out one more, it says 25.4 miles - and I can no longer see range rings zoomed out that far.

Don't know whether this is 1.5 or something in the mod, but it looks to me (again, pretty blurry) like you're out to 25.4 and the rings are still visible? If that's the case, the outer ring probably IS the visual, measured with the PSP grid assuming 25 miles on the ruler, it does come out to about 29,000 yards which would be about right for a 50,000 max range.

Finally figured out the formula BTW, whatever the max range is in the AI_sensors.dat file, multiply by 0.58 and that's approximately what the ring will be.
Example, ASVMarkIII radar shows a maxrange of 12000, times 0.58 = 6960, so the range ring will have a radius of about 7,000 yards.

KaleunMarco · 04-10-19, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

I looked at your pic in post #8, too small to read the ruler even after copying and pasting into PSP7 and sharpening it I can't make out the numbers.

In 1.4 if I zoom all the way in, then out five times, end of the ruler says 12.7 miles. Zoom out one more, it says 25.4 miles - and I can no longer see range rings zoomed out that far.

Don't know whether this is 1.5 or something in the mod, but it looks to me (again, pretty blurry) like you're out to 25.4 and the rings are still visible? If that's the case, the outer ring probably IS the visual, measured with the PSP grid assuming 25 miles on the ruler, it does come out to about 29,000 yards which would be about right for a 50,000 max range.

Finally figured out the formula BTW, whatever the max range is in the AI_sensors.dat file, multiply by 0.58 and that's approximately what the ring will be.
Example, ASVMarkIII radar shows a maxrange of 12000, times 0.58 = 6960, so the range ring will have a radius of about 7,000 yards.

ok...more graphics.

the circle has a radius of 27km. that's a bit less than .58 of 50k. is there another explanation?

i also measured the 270 degree sensor at 1750 m.

here is Kent Class CA

it has only one sensor with a radius of 5000m. the .SNS file shows only Visual and Radar available in this time frame. below that is the sensor data. i'm still confused.

[Sensor 6]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=Type273
StartDate=19420901
EndDate=19451231

Sniper297 · 04-10-19, 07:24 PM

Well, something different between what I have and what you have, the ruler isn't even the same. Mine says 25.4, yours says 23.5, dunno if that's a difference in 1.4 versus 1.5 or something they did in the mod. Miles versus kilometers, meters versus yards could also be a factor - In WWII Britain and America used Imperial measures, Germans and probably their allies used metric. Game was created in Romania so I'm pretty sure the data in the files is metric (according to SKWAS they are), while the numbers in the game (again 1.4, USN only) are in feet, yards and nautical miles. Conversion factor for maxrange to range rings would be 58% for yards, 53% for meters.

In other words I'm converting 10000 meters in the file to 5800 yards, that would be 5300 meters. 50,000 times 0.53 = 26,500, close enough for rock & roll.

Only real mysteries left to me are why you can see range rings zoomed out one more step than I can, and how they did the trick with the additional active sonar ring.

Sniper297 · 04-10-19, 07:35 PM

Got it. Mine says 12.7 at the furthest zoom out, 12.7 nautical miles = 23.5 kilometers, so your pics are actually zoomed out to the same as mine.

https://www.calculateme.com/length/n...to-kilometers/

KaleunMarco · 04-10-19, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

Got it. Mine says 12.7 at the furthest zoom out, 12.7 nautical miles = 23.5 kilometers, so your pics are actually zoomed out to the same as mine.

https://www.calculateme.com/length/n...to-kilometers/

i like it. makes sense. take the rest of the night off.

now...just the last piece...why four sensor rings? rhetorical at this point.

Sniper297 · 04-10-19, 10:51 PM

"take the rest of the night off" LIBERTY CALL!

Last one we'll have to hunt down whoever programmed the mod, get him drunk enough to spill the secret.

Curious, any of you guys with stock 1.5 getting them heathen kilometers (dadblasted newfangled French furlongs!) instead of good old yards and nautical miles? Does it change according to which campaign you're playing?

Fifi · 04-11-19, 01:09 AM

Marco, what is this GUI you have on pict above?
Traveller?

KaleunMarco · 04-11-19, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifi

Marco, what is this GUI you have on pict above?
Traveller?

not sure what you mean. here is my OpM config. my system config is in my signature.
Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Ubisoft\SH4_OpMonson\MODS]

1OpsMonsun_V705
2OMv705_to_V720
3OMv720_Patch5

KaleunMarco · 04-11-19, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

"take the rest of the night off" LIBERTY CALL!

Last one we'll have to hunt down whoever programmed the mod, get him drunk enough to spill the secret.

Curious, any of you guys with stock 1.5 getting them heathen kilometers (dadblasted newfangled French furlongs!) instead of good old yards and nautical miles? Does it change according to which campaign you're playing?

yes.
i've played the stock u-boat campaign in the IO and the units shift from feet/miles to m/km.

yes, you have to use the brain to remember and calculate things like 14km is the safe interval to surface after an enemy contact. or 2000 m is the beginning interval for a torpedo attack. stuff like that.
things that i question are constants such as torpedo speed in the .SIM file. it indicates KTS but is sure SEEMS like german torpedos take longer to reach their targets than american torpedos (km/hr vs mph). yes, the system uses knots and a knot is a knot is a knot but it sure seems longer.
anyway, that's probably TMI.

Fifi · 04-11-19, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

not sure what you mean. here is my OpM config. my system config is in my signature.
Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Ubisoft\SH4_OpMonson\MODS]

1OpsMonsun_V705
2OMv705_to_V720
3OMv720_Patch5

Was meaning the order bar and dials...

KaleunMarco · 04-11-19, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifi

Was meaning the order bar and dials...

ok.
that's entirely OpM material.

04-11-19, 01:09 AM	#26
Fifi Navy Seal Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: France Posts: 5,747 Downloads: 456 Uploads: 0	Marco, what is this GUI you have on pict above? Traveller? __________________

04-08-19, 06:44 PM	#16
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Well, I was also in the USN, Aviation ASW tech in a heavy helicopter antisubmarine squadron, so the only real world sonar I have any experience with was the AN/AQS-13 Alpha in the SH3 Sea King. The thing hanging down is the dip sonar being retracted, the barrel shaped part is the hydrophone, the long skinny thing below that is the transducer. Unlike surface ship sonar it was 360 degrees always, either active or passive, the circuits in the hydrophone automatically gave the range and bearing with no need to focus a transmitter or receiver. No moving parts. From what I've read (again no real world experience, I was born 8 years after WWII ended) the destroyers in WWII could only "ping" beam to beam, so that's what that semi circle is. Never served on a destroyer (thank god, our Sikorsky Sea Kings were too big for them bobbing seasick corks) but I served on a couple carriers, and they had lookout stations for 360 degrees as well - guys on platforms or sponsons all around the 08 level of the island or the 03 level catwalks. Can't imagine why any modern destroyer wouldn't have the same, wasn't there at least a fantail watch looking for drunks falling overboard? (HIC!) LinkName=Escort_Visual is a new one to me, but the value shown in your pic is 50,000 yards. That's one way to disable the visual ring in the chart, the average of 50,000 would be somewhere around 29000 yards, so that ring would be way too big to show up on the chart. Whoever programmed the mod must have edited another file to reduce the range that the AI crew can actually see, otherwise they'd have no need for radar. Only mystery to me in your latest pic is the 1/3rd pie shape in front, have to ask the programmers of the mod what that is (got to be a second type of sonar) and how they pulled off the trick. Does the SNS file have more than one type of active sonar, or does the 128P have an extra sensor in it?

04-08-19, 10:11 PM	#18
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Right. What I'm saying is radar, passive sonar, then two types of active sonar. The visual range ring can't be seen because it's too big for the chart. 50,000 yards would be about 29,000 yards for the ring, a radius of 14.5 nautical miles, a circle 29 miles in diameter. If you zoom in and out while a ship with range rings is selected, you'll find that when you zoom in as far as it goes then zoom out 5 times the ruler at top left shows 12.7 miles. Zoom out one more time and the ruler changes to 25.4 miles, and the range rings disappear. If they stayed visible at the 6th power zoom out, then you'd be able to see a 50,000 yard (29,000 yard average) range ring.

04-09-19, 11:47 PM	#20
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	I looked at your pic in post #8, too small to read the ruler even after copying and pasting into PSP7 and sharpening it I can't make out the numbers. In 1.4 if I zoom all the way in, then out five times, end of the ruler says 12.7 miles. Zoom out one more, it says 25.4 miles - and I can no longer see range rings zoomed out that far. Don't know whether this is 1.5 or something in the mod, but it looks to me (again, pretty blurry) like you're out to 25.4 and the rings are still visible? If that's the case, the outer ring probably IS the visual, measured with the PSP grid assuming 25 miles on the ruler, it does come out to about 29,000 yards which would be about right for a 50,000 max range. Finally figured out the formula BTW, whatever the max range is in the AI_sensors.dat file, multiply by 0.58 and that's approximately what the ring will be. Example, ASVMarkIII radar shows a maxrange of 12000, times 0.58 = 6960, so the range ring will have a radius of about 7,000 yards.

04-10-19, 07:24 PM	#22
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Well, something different between what I have and what you have, the ruler isn't even the same. Mine says 25.4, yours says 23.5, dunno if that's a difference in 1.4 versus 1.5 or something they did in the mod. Miles versus kilometers, meters versus yards could also be a factor - In WWII Britain and America used Imperial measures, Germans and probably their allies used metric. Game was created in Romania so I'm pretty sure the data in the files is metric (according to SKWAS they are), while the numbers in the game (again 1.4, USN only) are in feet, yards and nautical miles. Conversion factor for maxrange to range rings would be 58% for yards, 53% for meters. In other words I'm converting 10000 meters in the file to 5800 yards, that would be 5300 meters. 50,000 times 0.53 = 26,500, close enough for rock & roll. Only real mysteries left to me are why you can see range rings zoomed out one more step than I can, and how they did the trick with the additional active sonar ring.

04-10-19, 07:35 PM	#23
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Got it. Mine says 12.7 at the furthest zoom out, 12.7 nautical miles = 23.5 kilometers, so your pics are actually zoomed out to the same as mine. https://www.calculateme.com/length/n...to-kilometers/

04-10-19, 10:51 PM	#25
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	"take the rest of the night off" LIBERTY CALL! Last one we'll have to hunt down whoever programmed the mod, get him drunk enough to spill the secret. Curious, any of you guys with stock 1.5 getting them heathen kilometers (dadblasted newfangled French furlongs!) instead of good old yards and nautical miles? Does it change according to which campaign you're playing?