[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by hauangua

Hi CapnsScurvy
I know that the length / height of the ships in .cfg file is not correct .. where can I find the correct data? in which files?

There are no other files that contain height/length ship data but the individual ship .cfg file. In SH4 the only data that's revealed to the player is the "Height" data found in the Recognition Manual. The SH4 RM doesn't display the Length. If you're using the Auto Targeting feature, the "Height" value is just for show....it's not used to calculate the firing solution. A completely different way of gaining the same result is used. Simply put, the games knows where every unit is placed on the map, the firing solution is based off that information.

On the other hand, Manual Targeting relies on an accurate "height" figure when calculating a firing solution when using the Stadimeter. The only trouble is making sure the visual resolution is accurate to begin with so when a measurement is made, a yard is actually a yard.

So too should the target ship model be accurate......a yard needs to be actually 3 feet! There's no reason to believe the modlers of the various game pieces actually have it accurate...….the Stock game doesn't have the actual view within the periscope accurate, so why should the model's be accurate??

This leads to one thing that needs to be done, having an accurate "view" of the game world that the players can use; then having each target ship unit "measured" accurately so it's height/length can be used for Manual Targeting purposes. No small task when the Ultimate mod has twice the number of ship units when compared to the stock game.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by TS13

Installed and did the some training missions. Here is some initial feedback.


Comments:
- UI looks great. Intro looks great. Help menu is great. All in all, very professional. Environment etc look great.

- Strangely enough, it performs better on my laptop than TMO 2.5.

- A gripe I have with every Silent Hunter mod ever is that the water/sea sound is not loud enough (either when inside the sub or on bridge). Might be because I generally like hearing the sound of sea, but I 'd like it to be louder.

- The compass (middle gauge) overlaps significantly with the torpedo panel (on the attack periscope screen and on all screens that have a torpedo panel). I can still see and press all the torpedo buttons (barely), but it doesn't look good.



Questions:
- Is it possible to turn music off during gameplay but keep it on while on the menu?

- On the F1 radar page, it recommends sometimes turning the radar off for time compression reasons. Aren't there other reasons to turn radar off? In particular, can't the enemy spot our radar signal?

- I am playing this on a (relatively modern) laptop. The laptop does heat slightly (while with the stock game it doesn't heat at all), but hasn't overheated yet. I will be keeping an eye on it. For laptop temperature purposes, do you have a recommendation as to whether I should be using my integrated graphics card or my high performance card? Both cards seem to be working fine with the mod, I just don't know which one is going to keep lower temperatures.

- I see that you went with black dots on the nav map. Is there a way to bring back full information on the nav map? Not sure I am willing to play without it. I don't know if it is possible, but it would be great if you offered the additional option of full information on the map (as in the stock game) on gameplay settings.

music question: music is either on or off. using the between-missions-options screen you can also control the main volume but there is no situational music control.


radar question: yes, the enemy CAN and WILL detect you if you are operating your radar and come within range of their radar-detection.


vid card question: i would think that you cannot determine which of the two chips you can use for any one application BUT (big but) there may be a windows-option that allows that. i will step aside if any others have more experience in this issue.


black dots question: not sure what you mean. can you explain in a bit more detail?


good luck.

[hauangua]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

There are no other files that contain height/length ship data but the individual ship .cfg file. In SH4 the only data that's revealed to the player is the "Height" data found in the Recognition Manual. The SH4 RM doesn't display the Length. If you're using the Auto Targeting feature, the "Height" value is just for show....it's not used to calculate the firing solution. A completely different way of gaining the same result is used. Simply put, the games knows where every unit is placed on the map, the firing solution is based off that information.

On the other hand, Manual Targeting relies on an accurate "height" figure when calculating a firing solution when using the Stadimeter. The only trouble is making sure the visual resolution is accurate to begin with so when a measurement is made, a yard is actually a yard.

So too should the target ship model be accurate......a yard needs to be actually 3 feet! There's no reason to believe the modlers of the various game pieces actually have it accurate...….the Stock game doesn't have the actual view within the periscope accurate, so why should the model's be accurate??

This leads to one thing that needs to be done, having an accurate "view" of the game world that the players can use; then having each target ship unit "measured" accurately so it's height/length can be used for Manual Targeting purposes. No small task when the Ultimate mod has twice the number of ship units when compared to the stock game.

Thanks CapnnScurvy I don't like to play with "Auto-Tdc" will mean I'll use "contact map update" off ... or I'll learn to use hydrophone + sonar better ... How do you do it? the stadimeter also seems unreliable ...

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by hauangua

Thanks CapnnScurvy I don't like to play with "Auto-Tdc" will mean I'll use "contact map update" off ... or I'll learn to use hydrophone + sonar better ... How do you do it? the stadimeter also seems unreliable ...

Yes, the stadimeter is only as reliable as the "Height" figure listed from the ships .cfg file. Which is listed in the Recognition Manual. Depending on the ship, the Stock game has some figures off as much as half as much as they correctly should be, making the whole process of Manual Targeting a MESS!!

The idea of Manual Targeting is to correctly identify the target ship, find it in the Recognition Manual, then "Send" its listed "Height" measurement to the TDC. You then use the Stadimeter to take the water line "second" image of the target to the top of the tallest mast. Once placed there, you "send" that setting to the TDC and the TDC calculates the Range between target and the sub.

The whole process is only as accurate as the given "Height" figure, which as I said, can be WAY OFF. For instance, the Stock game Japanese Hiryu Carrier is only listing its measured mast height at half at what it should be. This error will produce a Range finding of 1000 yards, when in fact the Range should be 2000 yards. No small error if the ship is actually double the distance from what it's calculated to be! Since the Ultimate Hiryu uses the same measurement as the Stock game.....guess what's going to happen when you try using Manual Targeting for it?!? Better stick with the arcade version of playing the game and complain about the water being too blue, or some other small time issue!

[merc4ulfate]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

music question: music is either on or off. using the between-missions-options screen you can also control the main volume but there is no situational music control.


radar question: yes, the enemy CAN and WILL detect you if you are operating your radar and come within range of their radar-detection.


vid card question: i would think that you cannot determine which of the two chips you can use for any one application BUT (big but) there may be a windows-option that allows that. i will step aside if any others have more experience in this issue.


black dots question: not sure what you mean. can you explain in a bit more detail?


good luck.

They meant the Black dot on the nav and attack map to represent the ship in question instead of the shape of the ship.

[merc4ulfate]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

torpedo or deck gun?

Torpedo. I'm not surfacing that close to a DD lol

[hauangua]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Yes, the stadimeter is only as reliable as the "Height" figure listed from the ships .cfg file. Which is listed in the Recognition Manual. Depending on the ship, the Stock game has some figures off as much as half as much as they correctly should be, making the whole process of Manual Targeting a MESS!!

The idea of Manual Targeting is to correctly identify the target ship, find it in the Recognition Manual, then "Send" its listed "Height" measurement to the TDC. You then use the Stadimeter to take the water line "second" image of the target to the top of the tallest mast. Once placed there, you "send" that setting to the TDC and the TDC calculates the Range between target and the sub.

The whole process is only as accurate as the given "Height" figure, which as I said, can be WAY OFF. For instance, the Stock game Japanese Hiryu Carrier is only listing its measured mast height at half at what it should be. This error will produce a Range finding of 1000 yards, when in fact the Range should be 2000 yards. No small error if the ship is actually double the distance from what it's calculated to be! Since the Ultimate Hiryu uses the same measurement as the Stock game.....guess what's going to happen when you try using Manual Targeting for it?!? Better stick with the arcade version of playing the game and complain about the water being too blue, or some other small time issue!

Do you prefer to use the automatic targeting?

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by hauangua

Do you prefer to use the automatic targeting?

My preference is to use Manual Targeting. These guys bragging about getting thousands of tons of shipping in just one patrol are using Auto Targeting.....easy peasy!! They get promoted thru 2/3rds of the subs in existence before the end of 1942, then complain the Balao isn't working right because it wasn't supposed to be issued until mid 1943.

If I had my way, the only way to play the game is with Manual Targeting as long as the ship "Height" figures are reasonably accurate. Since they aren't, I guess players should still use Auto Targeting.

[Rockin Robbins]

We have found several parameters that the game provided and then simply ignores in favor of a hard-coded value. Those are unfixable.

[Michael Wood]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

My preference is to use Manual Targeting. These guys bragging about getting thousands of tons of shipping in just one patrol are using Auto Targeting.....easy peasy!! They get promoted thru 2/3rds of the subs in existence before the end of 1942, then complain the Balao isn't working right because it wasn't supposed to be issued until mid 1943.

If I had my way, the only way to play the game is with Manual Targeting as long as the ship "Height" figures are reasonably accurate. Since they aren't, I guess players should still use Auto Targeting.

If one uses map updates on, it is very simple to calculate course and speed using map and not bother with stadimeter. With course and speed, one can easily perform a constant bearing attack. In fact, it is just about impossible to miss, using this method. There is no need for automatic targeting and this method is far better against zig-zagging ships.

I only play with map updates off, even though this affords me a bit less situational awareness than I would have on an actual submarine with crew. I use the stadimeter and try to get as close as possible. Knowing the mast heights are unreliable, I also try to verify range with active sonar, if no escort present. I do some times miss. That's life.

Once surface to surface radar becomes available, with a good radar mod, as can be found in the new FOTRS, course and speed can be calculated before the ship comes in visual range and a constant bearing attack can be performed almost as easily as with map updates on. Just a lot more drawing on the blank map.

My big complaint against TMO is that I can fire from a range of 600 yards against a tramp steamer who immediately spots the torpedo and accelerates to maximum speed almost instantly, causing me to miss after an hour worth of plotting and calculating. Note, I have in a couple such cases, exited the game and changed to automatic targeting, then replayed the attack with the same results. Enemy ships should not cheat. RFB much better in this regard.

By the way, I do often end up with tens of thousands of tons of shipping in a single 60 day patrol, without map updates and using manual targeting (complaining, not bragging). Not because I am so clever, but because there are too many encounters.

Like the radar improvements and wider variety of ships in FOTRS. Thanks!

[hauangua]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

My preference is to use Manual Targeting. These guys bragging about getting thousands of tons of shipping in just one patrol are using Auto Targeting.....easy peasy!! They get promoted thru 2/3rds of the subs in existence before the end of 1942, then complain the Balao isn't working right because it wasn't supposed to be issued until mid 1943.

If I had my way, the only way to play the game is with Manual Targeting as long as the ship "Height" figures are reasonably accurate. Since they aren't, I guess players should still use Auto Targeting.

Thanks a lot CapnScurvy.
I think no important if the stadimeter, the values ​​are wrong, I play with manual targeting, no like, no want play "arcade"..
If wrong hit, it can happen, as happened in real life.
But I'm sorry, however, that SH4 was badly created, then SH3 experience, ubisoft had what it takes to do better, SH3 is more "immersive" But I want to try the "silent service"

[TS13]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

vid card question: i would think that you cannot determine which of the two chips you can use for any one application BUT (big but) there may be a windows-option that allows that. i will step aside if any others have more experience in this issue.

NVIDIA control panel allows me to choose. I think I should go with the integrated card (the NVIDIA high performance card generally pulls more current in, raising temperatures), I just thought I should ask in case you guys have a different opinion.

black dots question: not sure what you mean. can you explain in a bit more detail?

When "No map contacts updates" is left unchecked in gameplay options, the stock game shows ship sillohuettes on the nav map, mentions speed, direction, and shows enemies in red and friendlies in blue. As this is not very realistic, TMO replaced all that with black dots and no further information. I was wondering if you guys can add back the option to have full info on the nav map. I am especially interested in seeing the colors (not so much the sillouettes or the other info).


PS. Also, please pay attention to what I wrote about the compass/torpedo panel overlap. Both periscope screens do not show well on my tiny laptop screen. If none of you are playing on a small screen, maybe you haven't noticed the problem. The periscope apertures are slightly larger than my screen, and the compass gauge overlaps with the torpedo panel. On any resolution.

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

My preference is to use Manual Targeting. These guys bragging about getting thousands of tons of shipping in just one patrol are using Auto Targeting.....easy peasy!! They get promoted thru 2/3rds of the subs in existence before the end of 1942, then complain the Balao isn't working right because it wasn't supposed to be issued until mid 1943.

If I had my way, the only way to play the game is with Manual Targeting as long as the ship "Height" figures are reasonably accurate. Since they aren't, I guess players should still use Auto Targeting.

While I agree in principal with you on the auto vs manual targeting, some of us just don't want to make the mental effort to work the manual process - often the game is hard enough as it is. I console myself with the thought that any skipper would have a crew to assist with the targeting process, and I don't have that luxury. But your statement about getting promoted to new boats isn't correct, at least in this latest version v081.

To wit: I started with S-41 out of Cavite-Manila on 12/08/1941. It is now 09/18/1942 and I am in Brisbane, still in S-41 after 5 successful patrols and 131,095 tons of shipping and war ships never having been offered a newer boat. I need to add that my S boat had a .50 cal AA gun, and a bow mounted 3.5" deck gun with four crew slots to man it and one more for the AA gun.

Upon arrival in Brisbane after 5th patrol, I received a conning tower refit (not a choice) to add a 2nd AA gun to the conning tower (on an S boat?), but it wasn't there when I looked at the equipment page. I was able to upgrade the one .50 I already had to a 20mm, and they said I could upgrade my deck gun to a 4.5"er, rear mounted. My 3.5" gun was a Bow mount (Default position on the S boat). Without really paying attention to the crew slots, I took the upgrade and set out on the 6th patrol when I noticed there are no deck gun slots, period. Even when I went back to the office with a reload of the end of the 5th patrol now there were no slots for the deck gun. There was also only the one AA gun. No idea what the refit was supposed to do. I just aborted the mission at that point until I get clarification from you on what I might have done, or what you find.

One other thing, in the v.80 releases you greatly improved the battery recharge times. In this version, I am lucky if it recharges by 1% in two hours! It can take as long as two full days to recharge by 25%. At least that is the case in this S boat, and that is with the officer who has the special ability to hasten the recharge. I'd hate to think what it would be if I didn't have him on board.

Anyway, Please look at these issues. I would have thought I'd get a boat upgrade after 5 good patrols, all objectives met, and 131k tons. The deck gun and AA refit for the conning tower is puzzling along with the disappearing crew slots, and the battery recharge issue is serious.

Thanks!

[Fifi]

FOTRSU is fully playable on manual targeting, even with some wrong ships height.
I never played any SH on auto targeting, anyway, so i will not start with FOTRSU.
Just have to be enough close to forget about those height errors.
Speed and AOB are more important than distance.

[Immelmann]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

One other thing, in the v.80 releases you greatly improved the battery recharge times. In this version, I am lucky if it recharges by 1% in two hours! It can take as long as two full days to recharge by 25%. At least that is the case in this S boat, and that is with the officer who has the special ability to hasten the recharge. I'd hate to think what it would be if I didn't have him on board.Thanks!

Can report similar battery charging behavior from a Tambor in V 0.81. I also noticed that when running at flank speed the batteries don't seem to charge at all. Which would be historically accurate, correct? I then dropped back to ten knots and experience the slow charging you describe. In V 0.80 the batteries not only charged much faster, but I seem to recall that they would charge at flank speed.

edit: I may have spoken too soon. I was running V .081 just a few minutes ago and now it seems to charge a little bit at flank speed.