How to avoid being pinged?

[Skyhigh]

Hi,

I picked up DW just 2 weeks ago and loving it! Cant believe I missed out on it 10 years ago!

Anyway I am playing a user-made scenario called Sicilian Wedding where my sub as OPFOR has to pass undetected through an area in the Med.

All goes well when I stay under the layer at the layer boundary - I don't hear any pings, and when I am above the layer I do hear them.
So I stay under, makes sense.
But then I start hearing them under the layer as well. The pinging ship always detects me this way.

Does this mean I am too close to it? Should I make more effort of locating the pinger and then avoid it better? And how far should I stay clear of it so it cannot ping me under the layer?

[Italian Captain]

I'm trying to explain you in few words what I Know...
PING dosent care if you stay under or above tha layer. If you're in range (4 or 5 NM) and in particular positions (for example 90° against the PING) you will be detected. PING SEE you, dont HEAR you.
Sonar HEAR you and, in this case, the layer is crucial...
If you want to stay hide, the layer help you to do it. But remember that the layer is not a magic shield or cheat. If the enemy is near enough (or good enough), you'll be detected...sooner or later.

[FPSchazly]

A ping is a sound wave and the layer interferes with it just as much as passive signals. However, once you get within a certain distance of a target (say 2 nmi or less, depends on the layer characteristics), the layer no longer works as the angle with which the sound hits the layer is too great to be reflected and it simply passes through.

I would also say the ping's bark is worse than its bite, so to speak. Unless they are really close, they're not going to detect you with pings too readily. It's like in The Hunt for Red October movie, "hounds to the hunters".

Here are some results from my maximum ping range test (i.e., these are the best case maximum detection ranges you can get. Most scenarios reduce these already somewhat small numbers significantly):

Perry class OMNI active ping detection ranges against Kilo, Akula III, and Oscar II in RA 1.40 (ranges in nmi)


Perry class SINGLE BEAM/OMNI ROTATIONAL active ping detection ranges against Kilo, Akula III, and Oscar II in RA 1.40 (ranges in nmi)

[Italian Captain]

Oh God...
Good to learn something new every day...

[Mike Abberton]

As FPSchazly says it's mostly about range. Maneuver to stay a safe distance (4-5 miles) away from the pinger if you can. If you need to get closer, get a good track on him and try to pass by behind the pinger where it won't detect you, especially when you need to be more abeam of the pinger.

[Skyhigh]

The Sound Speed Profile was like this one:


So I guess that shows that when you are far enough and under the layer, you will not be detected, but when you are very close, you will be.

What I feared was detection when above the layer, so I was ducking under it and hoping I would avoid the pinger, but the problem is that you cannot detect the pinger either when you are in this so-called shadow zone. So inevitably I got too close to the surface ship without knowing where it was, and so I got pinged whilst being under the layer.

From your replies I understand that it is necessary to peak above the layer at times to get a bearing and range on the pinger, and then stay about 4-5 nm clear of it. I assume while staying under the layer?
Because FPSChazly's data suggests detection possibilities from a max of 9.82 nm, which I assume is above the layer.

Cool beans, thx!

[bottomcrawler]

The Oscar is a huge sub! The size of the sub affects the size of the return in the game (but it's based on a lookup table, not any kind of ray tracing).

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by bottomcrawler

The Oscar is a huge sub! The size of the sub affects the size of the return in the game (but it's based on a lookup table, not any kind of ray tracing).

Yes, to use the Oscar detection ranges in that table would be unnecessarily conservative. Even playing as an Oscar, it's generally too restrictive. Those numbers are with as many variables eliminated as possible, including the calmest sea, a rock bottom ocean, and no layer. Change the bottom type to mud and increase the sea state and all of a sudden, these active detection ranges become greatly reduced. I can't particularly recall a time when an A.I. surface pinger had counter-detected me, and their ability to detect you is even worse in rough sea states since their sensors are where the waves are actually crashing and rolling.