UK Politics Thread

[Jimbuna]

I'm reliably informed of at least eighteen candidates eventually but so far here are thirteen of the possible contenders.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48395611

Sir Graham Brady earlier resigned as Chair of the 1922 Committee so I should imagine he will be making an announcement today or tomorrow.

[BossMark]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I'm reliably informed of at least eighteen candidates eventually but so far here are thirteen of the possible contenders.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48395611

Sir Graham Brady earlier resigned as Chair of the 1922 Committee so I should imagine he will be making an announcement today or tomorrow.

Well i can honestly say i dont trust or like any of them. But there is 3 i really cant stand and would hate them to be PM
Boris the buffon (but he is the bookies favourite)
Michael the slug Gove
And that evil bitch Esther Mcvey

[mapuc]

Are you happy now, after May have resign ?

Which Prime Minister do you prefer to take over after May ?

Markus

[MGR1]

Looking at the list of prospective contenders (LINK) it's not very inspiring. I'd be inclined to say Rory Stewart would be a reasonable compromise candidate but he hasn't got a snowballs chance in hell of making it as party leader.

If the unlikely event he did became party leader the Scottish Conservatives would have a better chance of electoral success up here. The rest are too bat-poo crazy or (unfortunately) viewed as "too English and not British enough" (quote/unquote) to go down well with the Scottish electorate outside the Tory party faithful.

Now, going off on something of a tangent:

As it's highly likely that Johnson or another high profile Brexiteer will become the next leader I think it's highly likely that the Scottish Tories will be forced to split from the main party if they hope to survive in the long term. There's already been grumblings about that: LINK. Ruth Davidson quashed that idea (paywalled) after coming back from maternity leave - she has to as her own election as SCon leader was on a No Split platform whilst her then-leadership rival Murdo Fraser took the opposite view. These murmurings demonstrate that there's a bit of dissension within the ranks, probably centered around Fraser and his "Nationalist-Unionist" supporters.

It's an unfortunate fact the biggest obstacle that the Scottish Tories face isn't the SNP or any of the other Scottish parties/branch offices. It's the not insubstantial number of their fellow Tories in England who, in the main, are not Unionists and are essentially English Nationalist in outlook.

As I've said to more than a few people over the years the core reason why English-style Conservatism doesn't go down well in Scotland boils down to Religion. Scottish Conservatism has it's roots in the Presbyterian Church of Scotland whilst south of the border it's counterpart is rooted deeply in the Anglicanism of the Church of England. Although religion has become (thankfully) much less of an influence, I feel that that fundamental difference has transmogrified into the political differences we now see between the two largest components of the UK.

Devolution may have recently exacerbated it, but that friction has always been simmering away in the background ever since 1707.

Mike.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I can agree to a certain extent but do admit to feeling a little sympathy and empathy at the end of her resignation speech.

I admit I felt no pity at all for the almost crying at the end of her announcement. She brought herself into that situation all by herself: by her stubborness, her complete immunity to reality and denial of reality , and her underhanded handling of the issue at hand which I cannot rate any different than almost treason against the will of the British referendum majority and the rules under which that referendum was held (because, as you recall, I see her as having run a mission to turn the Brexit into an impotent, meanignless alibi action only that is no Brexit in meaning, but allows the political caste to get away with its coup of iognoring the referendum'S spirit and intention). I further admit, when I saw her almost crying, I felt anger and contempt: because in my perception of her record, she has no right to feel sadness or self-pity, and that she nevertheless does, to me indicates that she still is without any insight and understanding for her responsiblity - and that she has so fundamentally betrayed from beginning on.

Hers is the self-pity of a perpetrator. I do not know English political history that well at all, but as far as I can judge it, which is not the historically most competent judgement I readily admit, she likely is the worst PM your country has ever had. At least I have never read about or heard of any worse PM. That the whole political caste fails over Brexit in a most spectacular manner, does not free her from her own individual outstanding role and responsibility in all of it.

Before pity and forgiveness, comes confession of own guilt. Before confession of own guilt, comes remorse. Before remorse comes insight. Her pathetical words showed clearly she still has no insight, and sees herself as the victim. She fails already on the first condition: insight. Therefore, zero pity from me.

[STEED]

As a politician she was useless in the Home Office and as Prime minister she was weak and as a result the EU knew they could control her. The result she was caught running around in a no hope circle and Brexit took up all her time. She craved for power without a care in the world about the Brexit nightmare that was about to unfold, clearly at the end of her speech losing power hurt her.

As a person who will probably leave politics I hope she finds something more suited for her and she learn the lesson.

[Mr Quatro]

I wonder if this is one of those male female things with May saying she was the second female PM and that she wouldn't be the last, plus sky saying that May was EU's best friend ...

How can a new PM male or female get a better deal? She did her best and failed that's the truth.

[Skybird]

There will be no better deal, and I did not expect any deal of May at all. That has been my argument from beginning on: the EU does not want a deal with the UK that leaves the Brexit meaningful, and thus Britons must understand that Brexit from beginning on meant "hard Brexit, no deal". Its this hard Brexit - or no Brexit worth the name. Another choice Britian never has had. The EU is about executing a precedence and about intimidating any other nation considering to leave. It is not in the EU's interets to deliver a functional Brexit that leaves Britain not in agony. The EU wants a precedence exmaple that leaving the EU only means misery for him who leaves. That the UK leaves - and in the medioum or liong run shows up successfully mastering the consequences - that is a worst case scenario from the EU's POV.

My criticsm of May founds on that she assisted the EU in acchieving legally binding status for what until then was just the EU's intention. May should never have signed that treaty with the EU. Of course she also should not have told lies about how cherrypickingly it all will be, but she was not the first telling lies about this whole thing. She provided the EU the legally binding alibi that the EU now can use to always leave any change and adaptation and concessions to Britian - while the eU does not need to give anything by itself. This signature - this is May'S big failure - I say treason - that should get Britons infuriated. And I claim that messing up Brexit and turn it into somethign meaningless was her goal from first day on. It also explains why she is so stubborn, and why she sees herself as a victim, a martyr crucified by an unthankful nation. In her eyes, i think, her sabotage of brexit is a service to her country. Mind you - May was against Brexit before the referendum, and voted no.

If you see it this way, May's behaviour and policy suddenly makes an awful lot of sense.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

How can a new PM male or female get a better deal? She did her best and failed that's the truth.

Anyone with a brain can see we are down to...

1. Leave no deal WTO rules
2. Stay
3. Referendum

May's deal is dead and if anyone thinks we can get a new deal from the EU is in for a rude awakening as the EU will say no more talks take it or leave it.

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far

Boris Johnson 80%
Esther McVey 30%
Jeremy Hunt 60%
Rory Stewart 40%
Matt Hancock 40%

(% is my predictions so far)

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by BossMark

Well i can honestly say i dont trust or like any of them. But there is 3 i really cant stand and would hate them to be PM
Boris the buffon (but he is the bookies favourite)
Michael the slug Gove
And that evil bitch Esther Mcvey

I'm not so sure the favourite will win, there is much hatred for the man in the backbenches.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Are you happy now, after May have resign ?

Which Prime Minister do you prefer to take over after May ?

Markus

That's the million dollar question Markus but by my reckoning probably any of them are better than Steptoe (Corbyn).

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I admit I felt no pity at all for the almost crying at the end of her announcement. She brought herself into that situation all by herself: by her stubborness, her complete immunity to reality and denial of reality , and her underhanded handling of the issue at hand which I cannot rate any different than almost treason against the will of the British referendum majority and the rules under which that referendum was held (because, as you recall, I see her as having run a mission to turn the Brexit into an impotent, meanignless alibi action only that is no Brexit in meaning, but allows the political caste to get away with its coup of iognoring the referendum'S spirit and intention). I further admit, when I saw her almost crying, I felt anger and contempt: because in my perception of her record, she has no right to feel sadness or self-pity, and that she nevertheless does, to me indicates that she still is without any insight and understanding for her responsiblity - and that she has so fundamentally betrayed from beginning on.

Hers is the self-pity of a perpetrator. I do not know English political history that well at all, but as far as I can judge it, which is not the historically most competent judgement I readily admit, she likely is the worst PM your country has ever had. At least I have never read about or heard of any worse PM. That the whole political caste fails over Brexit in a most spectacular manner, does not free her from her own individual outstanding role and responsibility in all of it.

Before pity and forgiveness, comes confession of own guilt. Before confession of own guilt, comes remorse. Before remorse comes insight. Her pathetical words showed clearly she still has no insight, and sees herself as the victim. She fails already on the first condition: insight. Therefore, zero pity from me.

Your a hard man Sky

There have been a few worse than her according to popular opinion.

Thatcher was reviled and still is to this day, many blame her for destroying the coal mining industry amongst other things for example but choose to ignore the fact more mines were closed under Labour rule.

Michael Foot is probably a fair example of a Labour Prime Minister who failed.

The list could go on but at the end of the day it is down to individual opinion.

Originally Posted by Skybird

There will be no better deal, and I did not expect any deal of May at all. That has been my argument from beginning on: the EU does not want a deal with the UK that leaves the Brexit meaningful, and thus Britons must understand that Brexit from beginning on meant "hard Brexit, no deal". Its this hard Brexit - or no Brexit worth the name. Another choice Britian never has had. The EU is about executing a precedence and about intimidating any other nation considering to leave. It is not in the EU's interets to deliver a functional Brexit that leaves Britain not in agony. The EU wants a precedence exmaple that leaving the EU only means misery for him who leaves. That the UK leaves - and in the medioum or liong run shows up successfully mastering the consequences - that is a worst case scenario from the EU's POV.

My criticsm of May founds on that she assisted the EU in acchieving legally binding status for what until then was just the EU's intention. May should never have signed that treaty with the EU. Of course she also should not have told lies about how cherrypickingly it all will be, but she was not the first telling lies about this whole thing. She provided the EU the legally binding alibi that the EU now can use to always leave any change and adaptation and concessions to Britian - while the eU does not need to give anything by itself. This signature - this is May'S big failure - I say treason - that should get Britons infuriated. And I claim that messing up Brexit and turn it into somethign meaningless was her goal from first day on. It also explains why she is so stubborn, and why she sees herself as a victim, a martyr crucified by an unthankful nation. In her eyes, i think, her sabotage of brexit is a service to her country. Mind you - May was against Brexit before the referendum, and voted no.

If you see it this way, May's behaviour and policy suddenly makes an awful lot of sense.

In a broad context I'd tend to agree with you on the above.

[STEED]

Amber Rudd has ruled herself out, from the horses mouth. Just saw it on the news.


MEANWHILE WE HAVE ANOTHER LEADERSHIP CONTEST..

Liberal Democrats start leadership contest

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48403038

[Jimbuna]

This was always going to be the case.

The party's current leader, Sir Vince Cable, announced in March that he would step down after the local elections.