The all purpose terrorism thread featuring plenty of allah akbar

[August]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Is this the Terrorism thread or the fantasy thread now?
I'm confused.

Yeah I've been kinda wondering about that as well but now that he's gone personal i'm guessing the forum admins will be stepping in shortly.

[Mittelwaechter]

Didn't you ask for barbarians?

Oh - the famous American humor.

All is good while making jokes about others, but dare you to have a payoff on the US.

Shall I rename Augustus to Ocatvian?

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

I like your signature!

Yea. I kind of fell down there didn't I?

[Mittelwaechter]

[mapuc]

I have a request, can't you agree on, that you disagree on most of the topic being discussed in this thread and then continue from there ?

Markus

[Mittelwaechter]

We are a circle of sheep - with one sheep telling the others, they shall not accept the wolves to take their lambs, eat them, send them to death, make them kill other sheep.

But the others have been taught intensively and successfully by the wolves, they could become wolves themselves. They just have to start eating lambs and fight other sheep, who try to resist our wolves attacks. So they insist on this possibility and consider it their own fault to stay sheeps.

Now you enter the circle and ask to agree to disagree.

Do you have any lambs?


I totally know you are after harmony. You are a nice sheep.

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I have a request, can't you agree on, that you disagree on most of the topic being discussed in this thread and then continue from there ?

Markus

I pretty much disagree with his entire take on life. Whats left?

[Hottentot]

Originally Posted by August

Whats left?

Being a better person, shrugging and moving on? It's only the internet after all.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by August

[...] Whats left?

Depends on the point of view.
What is "right" in Europe, is "socialist" in the USA.
What is "left" in the US, is already "right" in Europe.
For Ayn Rand lovers the Nazis are "left".
What is "right" in the US, exceeds european gauges.
And the moon is made of green cheese.

Thread properly derailed?


Seriously, what Mittelwaechter wrote is not so wrong when you think about it.. observational abstraction and all that.

[Betonov]

Mittelwaecher is wrong in one aspect, what we have is not capitalism. It's corporate socialism where companies used wealth and influence to lobby goverments into favourable laws at the expense of the working folk.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Mittelwaecher is wrong in one aspect, what we have is not capitalism. It's corporate socialism where companies used wealth and influence to lobby goverments into favourable laws at the expense of the working folk.

Define "corporate socialism"
What has lobbying, bribing politicians and getting corporation-friendly rules through (to the disadvantage of the workers), to do with "socialism"? I would define this as "locust capitalism", if at all.

What we have is what "capitalism" becomes, everywhere and always, after a few years. Like communism and dictatorship.
Initially it may have been a good idea, but it does not work in the long run. And the result has not much to do with the initial "..ism".

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Define "corporate socialism"
What has lobbying, bribing politicians and getting corporation-friendly rules through (to the disadvantage of the workers), to do with "socialism"? I would define this as "locust capitalism", if at all.

They enjoy tax payed benefits.
When you're from former Yugoslavia socialism means something positive. Something that benefited the population.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

.... with one sheep telling the others, they shall not accept the wolves to take their lambs, eat them, send them to death, make them kill other sheep.

Do you have any lambs? You are a nice sheep.

That's called a Judas GOAT...not a sheep!

[Catfish]

^ Hehe I think what he means is not an intentional bribed "Judas goat", but someone who does it voluntarily, because he indeed believes it is best for the people, thus generating a false... "harmony".
The "Judas" does not even take money anymore, he is brainwashed himself.

Originally Posted by Betonov

They enjoy tax payed benefits.
When you're from former Yugoslavia socialism means something positive. Something that benefited the population.

Socialism is the prestage which inevitably leads to communism, say Marx, and Engels.

In the socialist stage there are some private companies left which are not yet nationalised, and are temporarily being guided and then dissolved by the wise benevolent government of the people, which, in reality, astonishingly, consists of one person. Same as later with the communist final stage, only that all companies and corporations are nationalised. Still one dictator.
All for the good of the people, of course.
It is as it has always been: Every dictator has to invoke a legitimation for his rule, in former time it may have been brute force (also a legitimation: I can do it), but then came religion (deus vult), and now political theories of all kinds (good for the people). Or, a putsch/coup, but i digress..

In theory when the stage of communism has been reached, there is not even the need for a government anymore, let alone a dictator. It is the "people's rule", of all.

But what we see and have seen with "communism" is not the theoretical socialism or communism described and thought of by Marx, what happens is always a dictatorship.
We can discuss whether the latter is inevitable with humans, when they try to live by communism. But the end product is not communism as defined by Marx or Engels. In the real world, it always ends in a dictatorship.
So we can conclude that socialism and communism is probably a nice idea, but impossible to implement among the selfish and egoistic human race.
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, not so much.

Capitalism is much closer to humanity, not ethical theoretical nonsense but pure plain and healthy greed (not being sarcastic here), turning out to be the best system, because in a way almost all can participate, and the general standard of living is higher than in all other systems and "...isms".
There may still be pity and helping others of course, but it is not the main principle.


Ok i get it that you say the corporations bribe the politicians, thus counterfeiting the wellbeing and will of the common people, and common sense. And the politicians use the people's tax money to even the way, for the corporations, e.g. by paying for the infrastructure a.s.o..
But why would you call that socialism?

Edit please punch me if i get close to skybirdian length..

[Oberon]

That does tend to be how communism works out in reality, power in the hands of one person, but IIRC the original goal was power spread amongst many hands rather than just one, probably the closest that we almost got to that were the Soviets set up in post-Tsar Russia but before they were all infiltrated and overrun with members of the ruling government.
Of course, this being humanity such a form of government would tear itself apart as various factions sprung up and worked against each other rather than for each other. Hence why the 'Dictatorship of the Proleteriat' was turned into an actual dictatorship as opposed to being a phrase indicating the political control by the proleteriat class level. Lenin knew a good thing when he saw one.

I think, honestly, in Europe we're as close to socialism as we're going to get, perhaps in the future we might get a bit closer as we become further interlinked by communications, but I'd have said that was more interwined with direct democracy, which is a system which has its benefits but relies heavily on the information presented to the public being free of bias, which is another problem that we have in this current era.