A lucky tanker?

[washishu]

Cruising around BF1 I was down to 25% fuel and hoping to catch something with my last four torpedoes. Picked up a fast moving target on hydrophone and gave chase. In heavy seas it took a good while to catch up and get a visual; a big fat T3 tanker, but we are now almost into the Irish Sea. It’s night time now but I don’t want to be here in daylight.

I closed to around 2500 metres astern and fired off two of the three in the for’d tubes setting depth to pass underneath and relying on the magnetic detonators; first was a premature detonation. The second hit and the tanker slowed from 12 kts to about 6 kts; down but not out. The last torpedo from for’d tube disabled it further and it was soon dead in the water and down by the stern.

I manoeuvred for the kill shot from the stern tube with the last torpedo, aiming to hit midships at 4 metres depth. It hit but was a dud. The tanker appeared to be going down slowly but the seas were too rough to man the gun to finish it off. I had no choice but to make a hasty retreat before daylight.

If that tanker sank before I got back to Lorient, would I still get the kill?

[bstanko6]

I don't know if certain MODS allows that, but if you do not see words on the screen that say "She is going down!" or otherwise, than no. Also if you press K on the keyboard, it brings you to the captains log. It will tell you if you sank it!

[UKönig]

In my experience, if you do not stick around until some kind of confirmation has been received, then no, you do not get credit for the kill.
Because you didn't stick around to observe the sinking, as far as you know, the ship could be taken in tow and saved. True, it'll be down for repairs for a while, but not destroyed.
The only thing you can do in that case is to wait around until conditions improve so that you can surface and finish it off with the deck gun. That part becomes the most trying on the patience of the captain involved...

[Pisces]

If you didn't get the "It's going down" text, and you move beyond 35-50-ish km it is going to despawn and you'll never get the credit. If you would then regain contact it will respawn in pristine condition as if nothing happened and your torpedoes and other damage will be entirely in vain.

[washishu]

Also if you press K on the keyboard, it brings you to the captains log. It will tell you if you sank it!

I am aware of the log but once previously I had intended to check the log later to see if a damaged ship had eventually sunk; and I forgot.

If you didn't get the "It's going down" text, and you move beyond 35-50-ish km it is going to despawn and you'll never get the credit. If you would then regain contact it will respawn in pristine condition as if nothing happened and your torpedoes and other damage will be entirely in vain.

That would make a lot of sense. I have in the past pondered on whether SH is generating and 'playing' everything—Atlantic, Med, etc.—or whether it just deals with things in my immediate vicinity; the latter seemed the more likely. And I seem to recall reading somewhere here in the past that 50km was some kind of magic SH number.

And whilst I'm here, another thing I'd like to know concerns the hydrophone, or more specifically the hydrophone reports. When the operator calls a contact at long range, what sort of distance is that? (I understand that in reality this would be a variable figure as it is governed by all sorts of factors, but in SH?) Likewise medium and short.

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by washishu

... And I seem to recall reading somewhere here in the past that 50km was some kind of magic SH number.

In my personal experience the hydrophone border lies at 34 km. But in respect of other peoples efforts in investigating (like the GWX team) I also mentioned the 50 km. I may not have done a very thorough job checking all kinds of sensors and variants. But they may have taken a bit of safety margin in those statements of 50km.

And whilst I'm here, another thing I'd like to know concerns the hydrophone, or more specifically the hydrophone reports. When the operator calls a contact at long range, what sort of distance is that? (I understand that in reality this would be a variable figure as it is governed by all sorts of factors, but in SH?) Likewise medium and short.

There is a config file that defines what short, medium and long range is. You'd expect in real life that Bdu would have instructed commanders as to what these definitions are. Atleast in terms of speed in radio reports. So I don't consider it a cheat looking into those files.:

SilentHunterIII\data\Cfg\Contacts.cfg

That said, the sonar operator seems to only report contacts within 20-22ish km. While if you listen yourself on the hydrophone station you can hear them upto the spawning range of 34 km. So it pays to do the dirty work yourself. You'll cover more than twice of liquid real-estate.

[UKönig]

Range also depends on which ship system is being used to obtain that data. And how it applies. For example, the sound guy says "contact, long range", he usually means 10Km or more, all the way out to about 25km. That's to give you enough time to work out a plot for the enemy, and get your boat into position for firing. (if possible). To the AA guns, long range only goes out to 2000m - or 2km- which, for a torpedo, is close/short range.
In all the U-boat books that I've read, it has been said within those pages, that the GHG could listen for ships up to 100km away or more, on a good day. The designers/programmers probably 'dumbed it down' to make things less confusing to the player. Here are some range values that should help you make sound tactical decisions. Try to keep these in mind when planning your attacks.
Visual range from the bridge of the surfaced U-boat is only about 16km. So anything outside that will be behind the curve of the earth, and hidden from the boat. That's where radar comes in, to help you 'see' over the horizon.
sounds go out to about 34km (even though they should go farther). AA guns go 500m-1000m is short range, 1001m-1500m is medium and 1501-2000 is long. It's often pointless to try firing AA shells at targets farther than 2000m away. Early war torpedoes had a 400m or so arming distance, so point blank would be 500m, short range maybe 1000m, medium 2000 and long at 3000, but that's for the type II electric torpedo. Maximum range varies with torpedo type, the early G7a could go all the way out to 12.5 km, for example. It was because combat operations became too difficult for the U-boat to get within 2km or closer of a convoy, that they started developing the type III, with a maximum range of 5km. The Germans were solving all their U-boat problems, except the one that mattered the most.

[washishu]

There is a config file that defines what short, medium and long range is.

Having absolutely no knowledge or understanding of code, it would not have occurred to me to look for that—and I wouldn't have known what I was looking at anyways. But I will take a look at that one.

the sonar operator seems to only report contacts within 20-22ish km.

That would explain why I have often heard something thumping away quite clearly and yet the op. says "No sound contacts". But it also works the opposite way too; the op. reports a contact and I can hear absolutely nothing.

Here are some range values that should help you make sound tactical decisions.

That's what I was after; I'll make a note of those. Although I never try to take on aircraft; I recall in one of the books—Iron Coffins probably as I've been re-reading it recently—that Dönitz tried to beat the aircraft attacks in Biscay by sending three or more boats out together and just wound up having three or more boats sunk. Coastal Command just sent out more aircraft and divided the boat's fire by attacking from all sides.

Thanks guys.

[UKönig]

Originally Posted by washishu

Having absolutely no knowledge or understanding of code, it would not have occurred to me to look for that—and I wouldn't have known what I was looking at anyways. But I will take a look at that one.That would explain why I have often heard something thumping away quite clearly and yet the op. says "No sound contacts". But it also works the opposite way too; the op. reports a contact and I can hear absolutely nothing.

That's what I was after; I'll make a note of those. Although I never try to take on aircraft; I recall in one of the books—Iron Coffins probably as I've been re-reading it recently—that Dönitz tried to beat the aircraft attacks in Biscay by sending three or more boats out together and just wound up having three or more boats sunk. Coastal Command just sent out more aircraft and divided the boat's fire by attacking from all sides.

Thanks guys.

I have well read copies of both Iron Coffins and Das Boot. Yes you are correct, Iron Coffins tells the story of BdU's plans for AA defense. Sail 3 boats together in their own 'convoy', the point of course was to improve the odds of them making through the Bay of Biscay. It worked well enough in theory, but yes, it was a total failure in practice. Advantage in almost every attack goes to the attacker who claims the 'high-ground'. And aircraft rule the skies here. So yes, the U-boat is extremely disadvantaged.

[UKönig]

I know this might be a bit off topic, but maybe only a little left-of-center.

Apart from machine guns, the normal ballistic armament of a U-boat was one 1-pounder AA gun on the conning tower, and one 8.8cm cannon mounted on the forward casing. During the course of 1943, starting with boats that were operating in the Mediterranean (where the need was greatest), these guns were replaced by more effective automatic weapons, namely four 20mm AA guns, mostly paired but sometimes mounted together, one of the excellent German-pattern 3.7cm AA guns, and the latest type of machine guns. To accommodate them, the tower superstructure was extended aft to include a lower gun platform, while the tower itself was provided with light armor plating to provide some kind of protection against machine gunning from the air.
When sighted by aircraft, U-boats were now expected to slug it out on the surface. At first, while the element of surprise lasted, the U-boats did achieve some success and in the summer of 1943, U-boats extracted a heavy toll against the RAF squadrons of Coastal Command. However, the enemy soon changed those tactics. As soon as the enemy pilot could see, from the men still standing on the bridge, that the boat was not going to dive, he would hold back or fly off until reinforcements arrived, and then they would all attack in force. BdU tried to counter this by sending boats through the Bay in groups and when this plan proved inadequate, they attempted to turn some of them into 'flak traps', that is, redoubling the AA armament in the hopes that the enemy would take it as typical and treat *all* U-boats in future, with greater respect. This idea was also not amazing, as the following experience will show...
In July 1943, on her second patrol, the U-441 was sighted by a beaufighter. Before committing to attack, the pilot called up two more beaufighters, so their combined firepower was no less than 3, 40mms, 12, 20mms, and a dozen lesser machine guns. Staying out of range of the U-boat's return fire, they proceeded to make a clean sweep of the superstructure, disabling every single AA gun, detonating two ammunition boxes and killing or severely wounding all 24 officers and crew on the bridge and fore-casing. Luckily, the aircraft carried no bombs that day, and their shells did not penetrate the pressure hull, the boat, still able to dive, did submerge and finally, under the command of the ship's doctor, limp back to base.
This was the last experiment with the 'flak trap'. Since the previous May, some British aircraft had been fitted with a rocket projectile system, which had sunk a U-boat on the very first time it was used. Introduction of the rocket projectiles had made if far too dangerous for a U-boat to stay on the surface and invite air attack, and by the autumn of that year, U-441, along with all the other 'flak traps' was reconverted back to normal use.

[washishu]

An interesting story. When I was a wee kid I used to make Airfix plastic scale model kits and the Bristol Beaufighter was one of my favourites (along with the Mosquito). I'm still not sure why but there was something about the shape and appearance of these two aircraft that I found to be completely captivating.

[UKönig]

My dining room table looks like a forest and field right out of Europe, 1944...