new ideas for next map

[suBB]

At this point I'm pretty much finished with my map and about to enter another round(hopefully the last round) of beta testing.

Now is a good time for new ideas for the next map. Honestly, I do like your idea of photo/intel gathering, molan labe. The next map in mind will be 4 player/multi and will include features listed here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=92394 as well as random events.

Right now confidence is at an all time high in my abilities in using doctrine and scripting, so lets make use of that and get some ideas in the works.

suBB

[Molon Labe]

Well, personally, I think recon/surveilance missions are best done over the course of several hours (SeaQueen style). Which means it's better suited for SP than MP.

I'd have a few different randomly staggered buoy fields already set up (random to help replayability) with an MPA guarding the area overhead. The Boomer would be escorted out of the yard into a testing area by a light ASW craft, and the testing area would be guarded by one or two SSNs, maybe an SSK or two as well. The exact composition can be dynamic as well. Add to that a command ship from which the test would be monitored, along with normal military and merchant traffic proper for the area, and you're golden.

Triggers/scripting would include detection goals...with a negative value...that could result in the test being aborted. I think a relative position goal would determine if the launch was successfully observed at the right time. The launch itself would require an armed SSBN (e.g. TYPHOON[b]) and a trigger-generated spotter aircraft that would link a distant land target, prompting the boomer to engage. Right now, "[b]oomers" are only available with SCX, so we may have to "use our imagination."

PS: I don't want to bill this sort of thing as "my idea," it's been done at least twice before. You know, just for the record.

[suBB]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Well, personally, I think recon/surveilance missions are best done over the course of several hours (SeaQueen style). Which means it's better suited for SP than MP.
I'd have a few different randomly staggered buoy fields already set up (random to help replayability) with an MPA guarding the area overhead. The Boomer would be escorted out of the yard into a testing area by a light ASW craft, and the testing area would be guarded by one or two SSNs, maybe an SSK or two as well. The exact composition can be dynamic as well. Add to that a command ship from which the test would be monitored, along with normal military and merchant traffic proper for the area, and you're golden.
Triggers/scripting would include detection goals...with a negative value...that could result in the test being aborted. I think a relative position goal would determine if the launch was successfully observed at the right time. The launch itself would require an armed SSBN (e.g. TYPHOON[b]) and a trigger-generated spotter aircraft that would link a distant land target, prompting the boomer to engage. Right now, "[b]oomers" are only available with SCX, so we may have to "use our imagination."
PS: I don't want to bill this sort of thing as "my idea," it's been done at least twice before. You know, just for the record.

One thing I've yet to discover is an idea of reasonable in-game time, and I think ill have a better idea of this once beta testing begins. I'm trying to avoid short lived/long drawn out MP - so I have to be mindful of spawn points, travel times, impact of random events, mission objectives and returing to safe distance.
I see your point but I don’t see that as an issue(and yes I like her style as well). On average, dives I’ve been in with various people over the years(i miss SCX) last for several hours ranging from mission obj MP(mainly DW) and versus and team dives(SC/SCX). And by several hours I mean 3 to 4 on avg. Again, this is something that will be monitored in beta testing

[suBB]

BTW molon,

All that stuff sounds great!!! Its definately a thought worth revisiting.

[LuftWolf]

The launch itself would require an armed SSBN (e.g. TYPHOON[b]) and a trigger-generated spotter aircraft that would link a distant land target, prompting the boomer to engage. Right now, "[b]oomers" are only available with SCX, so we may have to "use our imagination."

?

First of all, when would SSBN's be attacking coastal targets linked from a submarine or maritime recon aircraft?

Don't you mean SSGN's?

In fact, any ship with long range Strike missiles can take a link from a user or preferably an AI spotting and launch missile quite effectively, this works for ASuW as well, although the link needs to be from an AI to get really aggressive attacking behavior (at least that's the way I remember my tests to be).

If there is a linking platform, ASuW and Strike equipped platforms capable of long range attack will fire very effectively.

Cheers,
David

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

?

First of all, when would SSBN's be attacking coastal targets linked from a submarine or maritime recon aircraft?

Don't you mean SSGN's?

In fact, any ship with long range Strike missiles can take a link from a user or preferably an AI spotting and launch missile quite effectively, this works for ASuW as well, although the link needs to be from an AI to get really aggressive attacking behavior (at least that's the way I remember my tests to be).

If there is a linking platform, ASuW and Strike equipped platforms capable of long range attack will fire very effectively.

Cheers,
David

The location of the target isn't important, and is generally limited by the size of the map. The idea is just to put it in to get a launch at the indicated time.

[LuftWolf]

So it's more or less just eye candy that reacts to a trigger and script?

[suBB]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

So it's more or less just eye candy that reacts to a trigger and script?

Yup..

Given:

mission objective MP: 4 platforms for luami 3.02

1.. Submarine infiltrates test area

2.. After more thought, submarine takes photo of test platform sail and passive classification

3.. Submarine will also take photo of missle test fire, or two

4.. Submarine sneaks out and return to minimum safe distance

5.. Opposing forces will try to prevent intel gathering

6.. And with doctrine and scripting, the rabbit hole burrows that much deeper :p

[LuftWolf]

Ah, gotcha, that's why you'd want them in the game.

Ok. We'll see.

Cheers,
David

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Ah, gotcha, that's why you'd want them in the game.

Ok. We'll see.

Cheers,
David

And hopefully you'd hear the launch in sonar too. In SCX we settled for a .wav file. Yeah, i guess eye candy is sorta what it comes down too. I just think its sort of cheezy to have a trigger that just says "okay, the sub fired its missile" instead of actually hearing the lauch and watching it thru the scope.

[LuftWolf]

Well, the missiles will have the same launch transients on sonar as all other missiles in the game.

The mission designer is free to include a "Missile launch detected" .wav.

Ultimately, the only improvement in adding the missiles to the SSBN's will be eye candy. The only way it would fire is if the mission designer scripted it to, since
there are no legit targets in DW for ICBM's. Although, that would make adding the missiles themselves fairly easy, and pretty cool to see a missile going into near-space (at least as high as the DW engine can go, which is pretty high, 100km at least).

I'm looking through the SCX materials, and I definately don't want to have ICBM's "in play" other than as an event in mission design, as that's not really what DW's all about, at least in my mind. Although, I understand why those would be useable in SCX, since they are for playable boomers.

Cheers,
David

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Well, the missiles will have the same launch transients on sonar as all other missiles in the game.

The mission designer is free to include a "Missile launch detected" .wav.

Ultimately, the only improvement in adding the missiles to the SSBN's will be eye candy. The only way it would fire is if the mission designer scripted it to, since
there are no legit targets in DW for ICBM's. Although, that would make adding the missiles themselves fairly easy, and pretty cool to see a missile going into near-space (at least as high as the DW engine can go, which is pretty high, 100km at least).

I'm looking through the SCX materials, and I definately don't want to have ICBM's "in play" other than as an event in mission design, as that's not really what DW's all about, at least in my mind. Although, I understand why those would be useable in SCX, since they are for playable boomers.

Cheers,
David

I think SCX wanted scripted launches but couldn't do it. They ended up having to make it part of the loadout of the SSBN, which was problematic because the SSBN would automatically engage any land target its side detected. If you can add missiles that ONLY fire when scripted to, that would be a major improvement from SCX.

[LuftWolf]

Well, that's easy to solve from the mission design side. You can set the SSBN on its own side, and then, when you want it to fire, you can give it a "spotter" and remove it after it fires.

So, that would be in case I can't set them the way they should be, although the missiles would still just dissappear into space. In fact, the mission designer could just set a building somewhere that could be used as the SSBN fire trigger, on a unique side with only the SSBN-side hostile to it, and have it be automatically revealed to the SSBN or scripted to have a solution or engagement.

I can't wait to find the time to do some mission designing, there are SO many ways to do things!

Cheers,
David

[suBB]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Well, the missiles will have the same launch transients on sonar as all other missiles in the game.

The mission designer is free to include a "Missile launch detected" .wav.

Ultimately, the only improvement in adding the missiles to the SSBN's will be eye candy. The only way it would fire is if the mission designer scripted it to, since
there are no legit targets in DW for ICBM's. Although, that would make adding the missiles themselves fairly easy, and pretty cool to see a missile going into near-space (at least as high as the DW engine can go, which is pretty high, 100km at least).

I'm looking through the SCX materials, and I definately don't want to have ICBM's "in play" other than as an event in mission design, as that's not really what DW's all about, at least in my mind. Although, I understand why those would be useable in SCX, since they are for playable boomers.

Cheers,
David

@LW

I was writing this at time of your post I was a mouseclick too late lol

I guess the .wav will have to do, and of course no cheezy text in report window.

I.E. My beta includes custom sounds, including a custom fire alarm.wav triggered at time of helo accident until within a certain range of ffg.

Shortly after the alarm is secured, the ffg ATC gives you landing clearance.wav, once landed, system rapairs take place and when helo is repaired to 100% ATC gives you clearance for take-off.wav

Or if you decide to take off w/o complete repairs, ATC will request returning to base(not that you have to, it solely depends on your better judgement) followed by can’t-comply.wav

Soooooo, I can't see why I couldn't make a custom .wav for missile launch for all playable platforms to hear. And at time of intel gathering AND if you are watching thru the periscope you will not only hear it but course you will see it.

In fact if you are sleeping on the job and not paying attention, you will still hear missle launch, but that will be missed intel on your part. Basically a missle launch w increased bass, kind of like an icbm launching from a silo.

Btw I’m pro akula as the 'camera man' for this one.. or maybe I should save it for another mission, maybe an artic op. If that’s the case then ill bring in a p3 for maritime patrol, ffg w/o helos as escort of test platform and either sw or 688 with another AI sub, maybe.

Each map I plan on making will revolve mainly around one platform or two opposing platforms while others will affect the probability of success or failure of the mission at hand, where nothing is promised or guaranteed, as it will really depend on your best judgement and choices you make in fulfilling your mission, be it that of intel gathering, or preventing it.

[LuftWolf]

Well, if you want to make a mission with a playable P-3, the P-3 in LWAMI4 will have ASuW capable SLAM-ER's and the Mk60 Captor Mines as a replacement for the 1000lbs mine.