[REL] Multiple UIs for SH5 with TDC

[TheDarkWraith]

someone posed an interesting question. In v2.1.0 I've disabled incoming radio messages if you are submerged (they don't get added to your messagebox but the game's log still adds them so you'll see them in the captain's log - hard coded in C++ code). Were the subs able to receive radio messages down to a certain depth? Or did they have to be surfaced as I've modeled it?

[Cap.Palla]

i'm pretty sure they have to be surfaced to recive radio messages...frankly i dunno why they hadn't a raisable antenna like the scope...

[Sonarman]

To quote the u-boat archive...

At the beginning of the war all HF and MF transmitters used forward jumping wire/antenna and the U-boat received HF transmissions on the trailing jumping wires/antennas. Because of the polarization of the wire, the boat sometimes had to point toward or away from the station it was transmitting or receiving to/from. Later a telescopic rod antenna extending from the port side of the bridge was added. U-boats received and transmitted messages in encrypted Morse code. U-boats seldom, if ever, transmitted or received by voice. The boat would have to be surfaced to transmit or receive messages on HF but could receive messages on VLF when submerged at shallow depth using the DF-loop antenna. Snorkel-equipped U-boats carried a drum-shaped aerial atop the snorkel which enabled them to transmit and receive HF while snorkeling. U-boats communicated almost exclusively with Control ashore. They did not send messages or beacon signals to other U-boats unless specifically instructed to do so by Control. A typical radio suite would consist of the following equipment:

[Lopo]

Originally Posted by Cap.Palla

i'm pretty sure they have to be surfaced to recive radio messages...frankly i dunno why they hadn't a raisable antenna like the scope...

I'm not sure, I've read somewhere subs were able to receive radio messages in short-waves when at periscope depth...

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Sonarman

To quote the u-boat archive...

At the beginning of the war all HF and MF transmitters used forward jumping wire/antenna and the U-boat received HF transmissions on the trailing jumping wires/antennas. Because of the polarization of the wire, the boat sometimes had to point toward or away from the station it was transmitting or receiving to/from. Later a telescopic rod antenna extending from the port side of the bridge was added. U-boats received and transmitted messages in encrypted Morse code. U-boats seldom, if ever, transmitted or received by voice. The boat would have to be surfaced to transmit or receive messages on HF but could receive messages on VLF when submerged at shallow depth using the DF-loop antenna. Snorkel-equipped U-boats carried a drum-shaped aerial atop the snorkel which enabled them to transmit and receive HF while snorkeling. U-boats communicated almost exclusively with Control ashore. They did not send messages or beacon signals to other U-boats unless specifically instructed to do so by Control. A typical radio suite would consist of the following equipment:

good info. So should I set that incoming radio messages can be received when at periscope depth or a little deeper?

[Cap.Palla]

Originally Posted by Lopo

I'm not sure, I've read somewhere subs were able to receive radio messages in short-waves when at periscope depth...

i'm not expert in radio frequency but i think that water reflect almost all the signal.
here the formula....lost signal (dB) = - 20 log ((7.4586/10 6) x √ (f / σ)) and in the water the lost signal is ~60 db so they needed a very powerful transmission signal and a very short radio waves.
Conclusion: i really dunno

[Sonarman]

There is another interesting article on this a U-boat.net see the table 1 in item 2.3 which lists depths for reception of signals.

[Cap.Palla]

Originally Posted by Sonarman

There is another interesting article on this a U-boat.net see the table in 2.3 which lists depths for reception of signals.

From your article : "With the strong powered radio signals they succeeded to communicate from a distance of 16 nautical miles, depth of submarine's antenna was 10 metres."

[Cap.Palla]

Originally Posted by Cap.Palla

From your article : "With the strong powered radio signals they succeeded to communicate from a distance of 16 nautical miles, depth of submarine's antenna was 10 metres."

OOppss...i read it from a WW1 chapter

[Sonarman]

A quote from user Dirk on the U-boat.net forums...

"Nauen was a Long-wave radio station for communication with the submarines 25 km west of Berlin. It operated on 2 frequencies (Nauen I and Nauen II) 16,55 and 23,08 kHz. This was in use for morse code communication but not for navigation.
The signals could be received down to about 22 m depth submerged. Station Nauen was replaced by the Goliath station later and still today there is a radio station operating the "Deutsche Welle"

The 2.3 table figures are for the Goliath transmitter which probably are outside the scope of this game as it ends in '43 but going by what this post says the Nauen signal was indeed available down to about 22m in the period covered by SH5.

So you should probably allow reception but no sending at that depth unless a schnorkel is fitted in 1943+ then sending and reception could be allowed for suitably equipped boats.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Sonarman

A quote from user Dirk on the U-boat.net forums...

"Nauen was a Long-wave radio station for communication with the submarines 25 km west of Berlin. It operated on 2 frequencies (Nauen I and Nauen II) 16,55 and 23,08 kHz. This was in use for morse code communication but not for navigation.
The signals could be received down to about 22 m depth submerged. Station Nauen was replaced by the Goliath station later and still today there is a radio station operating the "Deutsche Welle"

The 2.3 table figures are for the Goliath transmitter which probably are outside the scope of this game as it ends in '43 but going by what this post says the Nauen signal was indeed available down to about 22m in the period covered by SH5.

well then let's agree on a depth and I'll code it in.......

[TheDarkWraith]

lightened up the colors used for the order bars, order category bars, and the teleport orders. This should help with night vision.

[TheDarkWraith]

Got an idea here: how would you like to be able to access the officer's ability screen from the officer's bar? I'm thinking of you click and hold on the officer for > 1 second and it pops open that officer's ability screen

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

well then let's agree on a depth and I'll code it in.......

I would suggest 20m depth. When 22m was absolute maximum under ideal conditions, have it a little shallower for the rest of the days.

[Sonarman]

On the officer's bar...

Yes, that looks great, it is very clear now what is and what is not available and less distracting in the dark.

And the ability of the officers bar to display abilities sounds good too!