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01-06-13, 12:08 AM | #106 |
Grey Wolf
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I just ran another test, the Graf Zeppelin wrecked a Liberty Cargo, And a Rawalpindi Armed Merchant Cruiser.
With nothing but 40mm anti air guns, they seem to shred anything in their path, including U-boats. The Liberty Cargo was sunk before it could even aim it's 4 Inch'ers at the carrier. At this rate, the 15 inch'ers on Battleships will be replaced with batteries of 40mm machine guns. Hmm, I wonder if there is a mod, that could loadout my Submarine with this kind of Ordnance... Last edited by V13dweller; 01-06-13 at 12:21 AM. |
01-06-13, 02:28 AM | #107 | |
Navy Seal
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CJ8937
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The Graf Zeppelin is not among the ships originally included in game. You are probably referring to the carrier featured in OHII, which actually is a copy of the stock Bogue class escort carrier. On a side note, Uekel's MTNS (More traffic, nations and ships) comes with a more accurate model of the carrier, which was inported from SHIII and which (correctly) isn't equipped with any gun.
I will revise non-stock units and equipments only after having finished reworking the vanilla ones. Nonetheless, your suggestion is putting me in the right direction. If needed I will reduce Bogue's armaments, and I will make low caliber guns into lesser deadly weapons for good Quote:
P.S: I've just found this good post by TDW about damage modding: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//sho...56&postcount=3 I suggest all the concerned ones to have a look to it. Pity he ignores how shell's armor piercing at any given distance is calculated from the AP values stored in shells.zones |
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01-06-13, 02:57 AM | #108 |
Grey Wolf
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Indeed, the Graf Zeppelin is just a Bogue Escort Carrier, but I do think that the 40mm guns should not be able to damage enemy ships. It still could damage uboats, I m not sure what caliber their armour could resist.
It is weird that the 40mm can wreck ships in seconds. |
01-06-13, 08:30 AM | #109 | ||
Navy Seal
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Quote:
source: NavWeaps Quote:
Take a medium armored warship, instead: Dido class light cruisers, for instance. They had a typical figure of 3" (76 mm) of armor at their belt. Even at very close range a Bofors woudn't have had any chance of scratching their hull Let's see game settings now: bofors guns are set to fire either the 40mm_AP_Shell or 40mm_AA_Shell, whose AP parameter on turn is set to 20 and 10 respectively. On the other hand, Rawalpindi and Dido's main ArmorLevels are set to 20 and 30 in their respective zon files. This is confirming our expectations: Rawalpindi can take damage from 40 mm AP shells fired ad close range, but not Dido. |
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01-07-13, 04:53 AM | #110 |
Grey Wolf
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Is there anything else you want me to test? Any weapons?
And does anyone have a download link for Cerberus's Historical weapons because the link on his page doesn't work for me. |
01-07-13, 07:08 AM | #111 | |
Navy Seal
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I am currently working on the Appalachian class USS command ships, the way Cerberus62 did with his "Historical Ship Equipment" mod (giving them correct armament configurations and specs, historical camouflages, etc) but developping his idea a bit further.
Moreover, I will rework 20/40 mm guns according to their historical specs. I will post an update of my work asap. Let me know in the meanwhile if you find any bug/mistake that needs for a quick fix Talking on AA guns specs, I've asked several times on the thread about realistic manual training/elevation rates for 20/40 mm guns (Oerlikon, Bofors, and german Flaks). No one was able to help me. Do you happen to have any idea? These are the current in game settings: Code:
SPEEDS (deg/sec) ____________________ GUN TRAINING | ELEVATION Oerlikon 20 mm 60 90 (single and double pedestal, AI) Flak 20 mm C/30 360 180 (single pedestal, playable) Flak 20 mm C/38 360 180 (double pedestal, playable) Flak 20 mm C/38 360 180 (double pedestal, with and w/o shield, playable) Flak 20 mm C/38 360 90 (quad mount vierlig, playable) Flak 20 mm C/38 30 30 (quad mount vierlig, AI) Flak SK C/30U 3.7 cm/L83 45 75 (single mount, playable) Flak M42 3.7 cm/69 45 60 (single and twin mount, playable) Bofors 40 mm 26 24 (single, twin and quad mount, AI) Quote:
Last edited by gap; 01-07-13 at 03:53 PM. |
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01-07-13, 08:33 AM | #112 |
Grey Wolf
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Thank you for the download link, I have been searching for quite a while for this.
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01-07-13, 09:03 AM | #113 | |
Navy Seal
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Quote:
P.S: do you have any suggestion on the table I've posted below? I understand that some compromises have to be done for playability, but it is normal for you that the same gun (the vierlig 20 mm) is aimed from 3 to 12 times faster on our U-boat than aboard AI ships? |
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01-07-13, 09:11 AM | #114 |
Grey Wolf
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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I personally think that the AI and the U-Boat's guns should perform the same, and I have noticed that the U-Boats anti-air guns do not explode in the air like normal Flak's would. It could be that the U-boat is only equipped with 20mm AP rounds, and no 20mm AA rounds.
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01-07-13, 09:54 AM | #115 | ||
Navy Seal
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Quote:
In other words: how good are you/your crew at shooting planes? When you man the Flaks yourself, do you feel their handling to be realistic? And how is ship's AI against planes? Do they shoot them down way too easily, or they have an hard time doing it? Quote:
According to navweps, the 2 cm C30 / C38 fired two types of shell: API: armor piercing projectiles that included a tracer (Incendiary) HEI: high explosive projectiles that included an Incendiary Outfits were about 75% HEI and 25% API Anyway no mention is made about the presence of a time fuze. Personally, I think they just ignited after being fired, letting a trace behind them, and exploding only if they actually hit a target. I can be wrong though. Something that might be worth is trying wether sub Flaks can be assigned more than one type of shells, like the deckgun. |
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01-07-13, 10:18 AM | #116 | |
Ocean Warrior
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But when the AI-ships do it, it's very easy and fast.. they immediately force down all the crafts which I request in the Mediterranean..
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01-07-13, 10:39 AM | #117 |
Grey Wolf
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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I do think that the Player's U-Boat crew doesn't seem to take out planes very often, I usually just take over to stop them from spending all of my ammunition.
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01-07-13, 10:42 AM | #118 | |
Navy Seal
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Quote:
I am wondering wether, paradoxically, a slower handling of the AA guns wouldn't make the aiming more smooth and accurate for the human player. I need for assistance by U-boat captains who like doing this dirty job by themselves. I know there's plenty of them around here |
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01-07-13, 11:29 AM | #119 | |
Ocean Warrior
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Quote:
My current campaign is Mare Nostrum.. so I can help with testing aircraft machine guns and AA guns..
__________________
. Where does human stupidity end? . El sueño de la razón produce monstruos © - and for some people awakening will be cruel |
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01-07-13, 11:56 AM | #120 | |
Navy Seal
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Quote:
Nonetheless, ntegrating your answer with the one by Volodya we should conclude that despite (or due) to the different train/elevation speeds, our AA guns are worse than the ones fitted aboard ships. Let's ignore human factors for the moment. Comparing our crew's and ship crew's shooting abilities will make things a lot easier. I doubt that the game got two different AIs for both our gunners and ship's gunners, so the answer should be in the guns they are shooting or in a parameter affecting their AI separately. Talking about guns settings, besides the above mentioned train/elevation speeds, the only big difference I've noticed between ours and ship mounted guns is in two parameters, called Trav_tolerance and Elev_tolerance. They are set to 15/15 for all of our guns (except the vierlig, which is set to 5/3) and to 1/1 for most of ship's guns (with only one exception, where they are set to 0.75/0.75). I suspect that these settings might affect aiming accuracy separately for each gun. Other parameters affecting AI's airshooting abilities globally, are found in sim.cfg (here are the IRAI settings) Code:
[AI AA guns] ;The degrees at which the AI could be off when aiming guns at airplanes Max error angle=4.5 ;[deg] Max fire range=3500 ;[m] was 1500 Max fire wait=6 Finally, in CrewAI.cfg we have the following parameters (with stock settings): Code:
[CrewAI] ; Weapons. Cannon range 1=500 ;[m] close range limit Cannon range 2=600 ;[m] medium range limit Cannon range 3=700 ;[m] long range limit AA guns range 1=500 ;[m] close range limit AA guns range 2=1000 ;[m] medium range limit AA guns range 3=1500 ;[m] long range limit ;selection Cannon Selection Range=8000 ;[m] max range to contact AAGuns Selection Range=2000 ;[m] max range to contact Recomended Torpedo Range=2000 ;[m] max range to contact Recomended Deck Guns Range=2000 ;[m] max range to contact All in all, my theory is that the Trav_tolerance and Elev_tolerance parameters are applied as they are in game (unit used: degrees), whereas for other guns they are multiplied with the Max error angle setting found in sim.cfg. If this was true, with the above settings we would have a max traverse/elevation error of 15 deg for most of the human selectable guns, and of only 4.5 deg for the guns used as ship armaments. I will prepare a couple of patches for testing my theory in game |
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