UK Politics Thread

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

So a letter from your PM haven't the same validation if it isn't signed ?

Interesting, while the second letter is signed.

Well he did as the Parliament demanded him to do - send a letter to EU's leader, which he did, they didn't say anything, that he should signed it.

Markus

I doubt the legal valdity or invaldity due to a missing signature, but if the ybrign him to court, he probably plans to split hairs. More importantly, he sends the real message to the EU with these two letters: "At no cost grant us the demanded extension!"

This whole mess has degenerated into something where they now split hairs by using not scalpells but laser-microtomes.

It all to me is violation of the principles and libertarian ideas on which law and order are founded. A raping of the spirit, the heritage and the culture behind the hisotircla and evolutionary processes that formed it what earlier generations made it to be. The idea(l) gets systematically assassinated, and big and profitable businesses get established around offering the expertise to run such a procedure of super-dooper-clever hairpslitting paragraphs and wordings. As a result more and more people fail to see the "justice" in contemporary court sentences, and withhold their loyalty to the structures the law claims to protect. I say there is no surpris ein this outcome. Its a causal result.

[skidman]

"A parliament of donkeys, led by nematodes. And not very bright ones at that."
John Crace, The Guardian

[STEED]

Ministers insist the UK will leave the EU by 31 October, despite a letter sent to Brussels asking for a delay.

Boris Johnson sent the letter - unsigned - after a major setback in the Commons to his Brexit strategy.

But the request was accompanied by a second letter, signed by the PM, saying he believed a delay would be a mistake.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50115151

GET ON WITH IT!!!!

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by mapuc

So a letter from your PM haven't the same validation if it isn't signed ?

Interesting, while the second letter is signed.

Well he did as the Parliament demanded him to do - send a letter to EU's leader, which he did, they didn't say anything, that he should signed it.

Markus

He did as instructed by the courts and the lack of a signature is extremely significant in tone and context.

[Jimbuna]

@Kai: I wish you'd consider reinstating your post if not for only I happen to agree with the content.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Why he didn't send just one letter, but have it signed by a janitor of the Westminster Palace "on behalf of the Parliament"? Would have been clear enough without so much hassle...

[Skybird]

I stick to what I said some days ago: the war is decided even if the battle is raging on. A PM Johnson will achieve Brexit earlier or later.

But:

to imagine that then the next war begins: because after a Brexit with a deal, NEW negotiations will begin, to make the wanted free trade treaty a reality at the end of 2020. And this treaty must be approved again by parliament. which in its current consistency most likely will endlessly block it again. So that once again the risk of a no deal Brexit raises its head.

Why that is a real danger, was illustrated by Labour in the he past hours: when I think Corbyn himself openly admitted what they really were about when supporting yesterday' s Letwin act of delaying parliament approval untl the govenrment has given it a formal, irrevokable legislation: to use the building of this legislation to again delay the whole thing and force new amendments into it that it renders Brexit pointless. Letwin said he did not want to prevent Brexit happening, he only wanted to make sure the government does not delay legislation until after October 31st so that then automatically a no-deal Brexit would happen. If he conspires with Corbyn, then Letvin was lying. He and his folks planned to do like they accuse Johnson of wanting to betray.

Get ready to have this war ending. Prepare for the next, its already in the making.

There is just one way to avoid it: elections, and the voters delivering Labour and the Liberals a smashing defeat that renders them helpless for the rest of the term - while not splitting votes for the Brexiteers between Farrage and Johnson, but putting all their united votes on one party only.

The polls we have posted several days ago about Brexit affinities and the likes, illustrated that the opposite most likely will happen. And so I say: brace yourself: the next war is already being mulled. I hope that EU leaders next year at the latest will be so pissed that they simply bypass Merkel and do not allow endless delays. Else this will last for years to come - mark my words. All this while the Northern Irish parliament, according to Johnson'S deal, will be allowed to vote about the customs settings in four years, and then in frequent intervalls.

Honestly said: I think the most prgmatic and most honest solution would be if both Irelands reunite and NI leaves the kingdom. Also could be a healing step regarding the strained relations between the two. As some commentator wrote yesterday: what the holocaust is for Germany, Ireland is for England: an original sin.

[Jimbuna]

^ Yep, only an election will bring matters to a clear and concise end

[Jimbuna]

Boris Johnson's Brexit delay letters in full:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50114538

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

^ Yep, only an election will bring matters to a clear and concise end

Or not. Ḿy trust in voters is extremely limited, but I love to be proven wrong here.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Or not. Ḿy trust in voters is extremely limited, but I love to be proven wrong here.

This is a well written article bt Katya Adler summing up where we are currently at.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50113287

Boris Johnson made it crystal clear on Saturday: he did not want to write to EU leaders requesting another Brexit extension.

And they were crystal clear in telephone calls with him that day that they were far from thrilled to be asked.

But UK law demanded the letter be sent. So now what?

Don't expect any speedy EU action, for starters.

On Saturday, French President Emmanuel Macron repeated his view that a new Brexit extension was not good for anyone.

Boris Johnson literally spelling out his opposition to prolonging the Brexit process by writing a separate letter to Brussels to say so, makes it easier for his peers Mr Macron, Angela Merkel and others to drag their feet a little.

They prefer first to look to the prime minister to make good on his promise to them that their newly-negotiated Brexit deal will *definitely* be passed by parliament.

And time (relatively speaking, of course) is on the prime minister's and EU leaders' side. Under EU law the Brexit deadline is not until 31 October.

Grumbling and moaning
In theory, Europe's leaders could wait until the morning of the 31st to hold an emergency summit to discuss an extension.

Right now they are keen to keep up the pressure on MPs, to help them focus their minds on what they really want, rather than rush forward with another extension, allowing them (in EU eyes) to keep going round in circles, never uniting around one particular concrete Brexit plan.

All 27 EU leaders have to agree for a new Brexit extension to be granted and they will grumble, they will moan and they will stamp their feet (metaphorically, at least).

But, if push comes to shove, with the alternative being no deal at all, then, after more than three years of Brexit process and negotiating two Brexit deals with two UK prime ministers, I cannot imagine the EU slamming the door in the face of the UK now.

If the House of Commons refuses to approve the new Brexit deal in the next couple of weeks, then granting a new extension would be in EU leaders' interest. They are keen not be blamed by their own citizens for a costly no-deal Brexit.

What's the delay for?
So, through gritted teeth, and only if EU leaders believe that it is needed, they will eventually most likely say yes to an extension. But a short one, if possible.

They will want to know what it's for. Are there plans in the UK to hold a general election, a second referendum or a referendum on the new Brexit deal? Or is a bit more time needed to pass Brexit-related legislation?

EU diplomats rule out the idea of further negotiations or amending the new Brexit deal, whatever comes out of the House of Commons over the next few days.

The EU fervently hopes this Brexit deal is the last one. Leaders want to move on to the next stage: negotiating future relations between the EU and UK, including a trade deal.

The leaving bit was originally billed as the easy part.

[Skybird]

I just wanted to post the last line... ^ .

[Jimbuna]

[STEED]

The leaving bit was originally billed as the easy part.

SPOT ON...

It is going to take years to get through the hard stuff but on this side of the fence (LEAVE) there are some folk who not understand. They believe on OCT 31st we are leaving and will have nothing more to do with the EU, sorry folks that is not the real world.

On the remain side of the fence....PANIC WE'RE ALL DOOMED CRASH AND BURN!

Well the IMF was upbeat and so is the Bank of England about Boris's deal.

If Parliament chooses some how to stop Boris and Brexit come the general election which they can not stop they will be punished. Will they learn from it...Very short term yes but long term no.

[STEED]

Brexit: Johnson 'has the numbers' in Commons to pass deal, says Raab

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50115151

He better of or you will have mud all over your face.

Brexit: Labour's 'door is open' to DUP for talks

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern...itics-50116218

You what!